Buying a worn 2012

[byronbradley]

I have the option to buy a nice 2012 MiEV with a worn battery for a decent price ($2000).

The current owner claims it runs OK if the charge is above 50%. Below that it won't go on the freeway or up big hills. I drove it and it had ample around-town pep but lagged on steep hills. A 30-mile range would suffice for my needs.

In that I've used an electric bike for 3 years around town (rather than my Taurus V6) but had a couple of crashes, I want simple back and forth in a more protected vehicle.

My question is: whether the current worn or low battery condition is likely to maintain or get worse?

If I someday drop the battery to renew it, will cells or modules be available?

I like the size, comfort, and view from it and wonder why upgrade kits aren't more available. Are there other ways of packing the battery compartment with N cells or other forms of Lithium or other types of batteries? And, are there such options out there? How likely are other components to be bad and how difficult is it to fix those? I have some mechanical skills but am ignorant but educatable on electrical.

Seems such a well-liked car would have rescue kits for such worn batteries, either to restore the 60-mile range or even extend that. Any advice from forum members?

 

[MickeyS70]

Welcome to the forum byronbradley, just a quick reply to your queries:

My question is: whether the current worn or low battery condition is likely to maintain or get worse?

More than likely getting worse, however there is a slight chance that a battery calibration might improve things. Beware: winter temperatures will reduce range significantly.

If I someday drop the battery to renew it, will cells or modules be available?

No, unless you get lucky and find a decent pack in a breaker’s yard

How likely are other components to be bad and how difficult is it to fix those? I have some mechanical skills but am ignorant but educatable on electrical.

Apart from the main battery, the OBC (on board charger) is another part likely to fail on older models, fixes are done DYI style with plenty of the help on this forum, but I would strongly advise not to ‘try this at home’ without competent electrical skills.

Seems such a well-liked car would have rescue kits for such worn batteries, either to restore the 60-mile range or even extend that.

Unfortunately not, although an Aussie company has developed a kit that essentially doubles the range of the car, but so far only a few workshops are licensed for the upgrade, last time I checked there was none located in (North or South) America.

Mickey

 

[byronbradley]

Thanks, Mickey, for the detailed reply. Discouraging. Such a cute car. My gamble is whether it would work for a few years as a safer around-town vehicle than my electric bike. By then, I'm hoping plug-in hybrids will have dropped in price enough to purchase. At 78 and after a couple of concussions, I'd like to use an EV for safety and functionality - beyond not adding my part to the fossil fuel problem.

I imagine a new configuration of the newer Lithium Ion cells might fit the parameters of this system, but I don't know.

I also imagine component kits designed for retrofits. Lots of old classic cars could be stylish, long-lasting EVs.

 

[MickeyS70]

My gamble is whether it would work for a few years as a safer around-town vehicle than my electric bike. At 78 and after a couple of concussions, I'd like to use an EV for safety and functionality - beyond not adding my part to the fossil fuel problem.

You’re right it’s a gamble but as you seem to be risking your life on a daily basis otherwise I’d say go for it as it’s the perfect city car.

Try to haggle price down another bit as it probably needs a new 12V aux battery and an OBD dongle for self-diagnostic purposes.

Good luck
Mickey

 

[kiev]

There are cells available that will fit and restore the original range. Member Piev built up a pack of these cells, did the BMU Reset procedure from the FSM, and got his range back. He used the 94Ah cells, but there are 60 Ah cells for less cost. Biggest cost was shipping at ~$20 per cell. He estimated that it could be done for $3k.

The main pack is carried in a black molded plastic housing. The bottom mold has ribs made to exactly fit using the Yuasa LEV50 cells, so any replacement cell must be the same size or smaller in order to fit in the trays.

If you don't need alot of range for daily trips, then a worn out miev can work well. Keep a fresh, strong 12V battery fully charged all the time and air in the tires--you are good to go.

 

[wmcbrine]

The current owner claims it runs OK if the charge is above 50%. Below that it won't go on the freeway or up big hills.

I don't recall hearing of this type of problem before. Does this mean it's going into turtle mode at 50% charge?!

 

[MickeyS70]

There are cells available that will fit and restore the original range. Member Piev built up a pack of these cells, did the BMU Reset procedure from the FSM, and got his range back. He used the 94Ah cells, but there are 60 Ah cells for less cost. Biggest cost was shipping at ~$20 per cell. He estimated that it could be done for $3k.

@Kiev: sounds very promising, I wasn’t aware, you wouldn’t have any more details on above? How did he get the original BMU to work with the new cell chemistry, one of the main reason such upgrade attempts have failed in the past?

 

[byronbradley]

Thanks, Kiev. This provides hope for the future of this car. $3000 to restore this classic would be a great deal, assuming I could do the work. I also doubled up on Mickey's questions. I assume Member Piev is a person on this forum. I'll try to find it. I'll also have to learn the acronyms BMU and FSM as well as find out where the 94Ah or 60 Ah cells can be found. Also, the owner recently replaced the 12 V battery (she thought it was a 6 V) which I see in this forum as a crucial part of running the larger battery. I'm inquiring if her recent around-town use has been stable or is worsening. I'm on the verge of risking my savings to get at least my own around-town car and perhaps one that can be restored and even upgraded. Thanks for the help so far, guys!

 

[coulomb]

I assume Member Piev is a person on this forum.

Yes.

I'll try to find it.

Some info in this post in the battery section.

I'll also have to learn the acronyms BMU and FSM

BMU: Battery Management Unit; it's a module under the back seat of the car. It talks to the CMUs (Cell Management Units, inside the battery) and the VCU (Vehicle Control Unit, I hope I got that last one right).

as well as find out where the 94Ah or 60 Ah cells can be found.

Google them. My guess is that the manufacturer in China is quietly selling these after an EV shop in Brisbane, Australia asked for them to be made specially. My understanding is that these (certainly the 94 Ah ones) almost but not quite fit perfectly, and some machining and brackets or adapters are required.

The real trick is getting the BMU to accept the new battery size and chemistry properly. There is a CAN bus unit that does this developed by the EV shop in Australia (Oz DIY), or the Russian guy can do some trickery remotely. Oz DIY partners with several shops around the world now, I forget if there are some in the USA. Certainly several in Europe. Buying this part would be easiest and least stress way to solve this problem, I imagine. These partners could presumably also do the whole job if they were close enough, or possibly sell you just the cells and adapter bits.

 

[byronbradley]

Thanks, Coulomb, for your detailed reply. Looks like I'm in over my head to attempt an upgrade or even a refurbish. Perhaps in time, I can gather from this forum or an educational book how to diagnose and adapt. Perhaps in time, innovative DIYers will come up with more reliable packages than trying to work with wizards in Australia and Russia. Beyond my needs for now; I'll wait.

I'll be getting the car this week, hoping it will meet my needs for local driving. The owner tells me the Turtle Mode doesn't come on until it is down to 50% charge.

I appreciate how functional this forum is.

 

[MickeyS70]

The owner tells me the Turtle Mode doesn't come on until it is down to 50% charge.

The tortoise lights up as soon as one cell drops below 3V under load. For this to happens at a 50% charge level is unusual but not unheard of. There could be various causes for this behaviour: faulty cell(s), pack not balanced, faulty CMU (Cell monitor unit) etc.

Hopefully this will be irrelevant to you as you should be able to do all your daily driving on the first 50% capacity. Let us know how you get on with your pocket-rocket.

 

[byronbradley]

Thanks, Mickey.

I bought the car (for $2000). It had a 30-mile range. Works okay in D or Eco. It dropped below the 50% charge and didn't go into Turtle Mode. When it had 12 miles remaining I took it on the freeway. At about 60 MPH it went into Turtle and got weak. I managed to get to a charging place, but it was impossible to understand or use. Limped home, barely. Down to 2 miles left, it took the charge. It showed over 40 miles charge. I drove it gently in Eco and the Turtle never came on. Evidently, highway speeds and big hills tax it too much and it goes into Turtle then, but gentle driving keeps it regular. Most recent charge stopped at 38 miles.

As is, works great for my local needs.

I like the car. Stylish, roomy inside, great sound system. Only has 595K miles on it.

Still haven't figured out how to turn on the heater from the remote (while plugged in) but I'll search elsewhere on this forum for that.