Kuuuurija
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:46 am

Re: Environmental Question

Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:09 pm

Don wrote:It's hard to have an intelligent argument with you because your logic is so flawed

Yes, you need 'energy and resources' to build most anything, and if you build it with new technology much of your cost involves engineering and tooling expenses, because you're still developing the technology and learning how to effectively build it

Consider that a flat panel television which sold for $2,000 only a few years ago now sells for $200 and it's a much better TV to boot. Once the engineering, development and production costs are amortized over the first 10 or 15 million objects, the true cost of what 'energy and resources' it actually takes to build the item becomes more obvious. Prior to that, much of what you pay is the company charging you extra to recoup their development costs

As you can plainly see, it's obviously impossible to make any comparison between EV's and ICE's using price because ICE technology has been pretty well perfected over the past 50 or 100 years (and about 500 billion ICE powered cars) . . . . we know how to make those kinds of cars about as cheaply as the newest flat panel televisions, while EV's are still carrying much of their engineering and development cost 'baggage' and they will continue to be 'artificially expensive' until they have sold a few million units of each design

It's hard to have an intelligent argument with you because your logic is so flawed
EV has the same long history as ICE car. There is more electric engines in the world than ICE-s. There is more batterys in the world than gasoline tanks. What is innovative in EV? Nothing! ~100 years ago an EV had longer range than iMiev!
Flat panel television has much shorter history. My CRT TV is more than 15 years old and it still works great. Many are using already 7th generation of flat TV. Of course, they claim, that they are very environmentally friendly, because LED technology conserves some power. But actually their mega diameter super economic displays eat more power than my little 21'' CRT (40W). And they have been wasting huge amount of plastic, glass and metals for their thirst for innovation.

Don
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Re: Environmental Question

Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:30 pm

Kuuuurija wrote:It's hard to have an intelligent argument with you because your logic is so flawed
EV has the same long history as ICE car.
Pardon my ignorance. I was not aware that more than 500 billion EV's have been built

I'll heed the advice given earlier by others - Stop feeding the troll!

Don
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Kuuuurija
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:46 am

Re: Environmental Question

Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:45 pm

Don wrote:
Kuuuurija wrote:It's hard to have an intelligent argument with you because your logic is so flawed
EV has the same long history as ICE car.
Pardon my ignorance. I was not aware that more than 500 billion EV's have been built

I'll heed the advice given earlier by others - Stop feeding the troll!

Don

If you are not familiar with the EV history, then I suggest you to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car#1890s_to_1910s:_Early_history
When I wrote about numbers, then I wrote about engines, not cars. Can't you read? English is my third language, so please ask, if something is unclear in my text! Do not be childish!
Of course EV does not sell as well as an ICE car. The reason is the price. And price is high, because to build an EV takes much more energy and resources than to build an ICE car.
If the car does not sell, then it is no sense to build it in large quantities. It is usual, that some ICE car models don't sell well. Then this model gets cancelled soon and new models will be launched.
If to compare an ICE car of the 1890 era with the modern ICE car, then the difference is the same as if to compare an EV of the 1890 era with the modern EV.
When I was a small boy, I used to drive electric car in amusement park.

In Estonia one man built an EV by himself. He used GAZ M-20 as a base for his modification. He just replaced its engine with the electric engine, removed gas tank and added batteries. It did not take zillions of dollars development cost. If EV-s efficiency was 90% compared to ICE cars 25%, as you promote, then there is no need for big research to get EV competitive. Unfortunately this is not true. EV is not competitive and the main idea behind the research is how to make it competitive. One thing is clear - if we run out of the sources of fossil fuels, then EV becomes competitive. So far EV seems to exist only thanks to the subsidies and the legend about global warming.

JoeS
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Re: Environmental Question

Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:46 am

On October 2, I wrote:
JoeS wrote:RobbW, you fell for it. My impression is that koolbreez (who just joined this forum) was just egging us on with his completely off-topic post in the Tesla S thread. Since you responded so verbosely, I created a new title and moved both his and your posts into it, into the Off-Topic subforum.

IMO, not worth wasting our time on this subject on this iMiEV forum.
Never heard from koolbreez again. Presumably, his question was answered.

Locking...
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

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