JoeS
Site Moderator
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Silicon Valley, California

Re: Ah Rate And Full Charge

Wed May 02, 2018 1:35 pm

DBMandrake, there may well be some merit to your speculation as regards NEDC. For the US market, as a result of numerous consumer and government lawsuits, the carmakers have become quite gunshy.

I rarely fully charge so don't get to see full-charge RR often. Since my previous 15-miles can be anything from a continuous blast at, ahem, 81mph (keeping up with traffic, of course) to a sedate city-street leisurely jaunt, which means, coupled with my eyeballed timer stop-charge setting at around 12 bars, I really never know what to expect. It's only on long trips that I pay attention and compare my Garmin GPS DTG to the car's RR.

On our Maximum Range Remaining competition thread the record is presently at 108 miles, with old-time forum member malm believing that the display upper limit is 109 miles (175km). I believe that the high numbers there were on pre-2012 European models.

Off-topic, around here, the only way to see what can be achieved for a maximum RR is to take the i-MiEV up to Lake Tahoe and come back on Interstate 80 for the 60-mile run down from Donner Summit to Auburn, losing 6000' elevation in the process. :roll: :geek:
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

Jonnoll99
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:23 pm

Re: Ah Rate And Full Charge

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:30 pm

Apologies if I’m breaking protocol. Beyond frustrated and seeking advice. After painstakingly obtaining a warranty replacement of my traction battery for my 2012 imiev, canion now shows a 25.5ah reading and the corresponding poor range you’d expect, similar to my prior battery. I returned to the dealer to have them reset the computer as I saw others say this would allow the computer to recognize the battery’s actually capacity. However, no luck. Same poor range (40 miles). Any thoughts on what to do, apart from complain to Mitsubishi? They seem a mixture of unhelpful and ill prepared to diagnose the problem.

DBMandrake
Posts: 250
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Ah Rate And Full Charge

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:59 pm

Jonnoll99 wrote:Apologies if I’m breaking protocol. Beyond frustrated and seeking advice. After painstakingly obtaining a warranty replacement of my traction battery for my 2012 imiev, canion now shows a 25.5ah reading and the corresponding poor range you’d expect, similar to my prior battery. I returned to the dealer to have them reset the computer as I saw others say this would allow the computer to recognize the battery’s actually capacity. However, no luck. Same poor range (40 miles). Any thoughts on what to do, apart from complain to Mitsubishi? They seem a mixture of unhelpful and ill prepared to diagnose the problem.

Totally unacceptable.

25.5Ah is only a state of health of 56%!

What was the reading before the swap ?

If it hasn’t changed much they probably haven’t done the battery recalibration process properly or at all.

Take it back and insist they do the job properly.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

kiev
Posts: 1059
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: Ah Rate And Full Charge

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:50 pm

@ Jonnoll99

The factory service manual clearly states that if the capacity doesn't reset, then repeat the procedure until it does.

Here is a link to a situation just as you have experienced. Print out the procedure and underline the pertinent sentence, then take it when you go back to the dealer. Piev had them try several times before it reset.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4182&start=10#p37989
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

Jonnoll99
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:23 pm

Re: Ah Rate And Full Charge

Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:54 pm

Many thanks for the feedback and encouragement. I've called the dealership and I'll press the issue further. Now that I can see my car's actual AH reading of 25.5 and that the minimum expected value is 45, I have more specifics and context to frame my issue, something they're less likely to dismiss with "well, your range will vary."

Jonnoll99
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:23 pm

Re: Ah Rate And Full Charge

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:48 am

In my infinite wisdom, i drove the car until it stopped. I figured, I have AAA and may as well use it. When it stopped due to the computer believing it was at 0% soc, canion shows 337 total volts and 3.875 individual cell volts (no variation in individual cell voltage), and a total wh out of 11126 (which I believe means 11.126 kWh out of the allegedly 16kwh battery). Any thoughts on whether the computer stopped the car because the pack was truly depleted or if these stats suggest I had more juice that the computer was unwilling to use?

DBMandrake
Posts: 250
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Ah Rate And Full Charge

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:51 am

Jonnoll99 wrote:In my infinite wisdom, i drove the car until it stopped. I figured, I have AAA and may as well use it. When it stopped due to the computer believing it was at 0% soc, canion shows 337 total volts and 3.875 individual cell volts (no variation in individual cell voltage), and a total wh out of 11126 (which I believe means 11.126 kWh out of the allegedly 16kwh battery). Any thoughts on whether the computer stopped the car because the pack was truly depleted or if these stats suggest I had more juice that the computer was unwilling to use?

The car will shut down completely when it believes it has reached 0% SoC - as you have discovered. It doesn't matter if there really is still some capacity left, it will be unwilling to go below a calculated 0% SoC.

3.875v per cell is still quite a high charge - very approximately 30-40% SoC. or about 4-5 bars (16-20 miles range) if your Ah figure in the BMS was correctly calibrated! 0% SoC is normaly about 320 volts or 3.63 volts per cell. At least on my car.

Charge the car fully on AC and check the Ah figure after it's finished. (Completely finished balancing, eg the red charging light has gone out) You might find that it makes an adjustment to the Ah figure, although it's unlikely to go fully to the correct figure in one jump.

It still really needs either the battery reset/replacement procedure, or the battery calibration procedure performing. For a new battery either would do the trick but the former is much faster! The reset procedure just resets it to an assumed 45.8Ah (which only takes a few minutes) and we assume your new battery is near enough to this figure, while the calibration procedure actually measures the capacity but this takes many hours to perform.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

Jonnoll99
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:23 pm

Re: Ah Rate And Full Charge

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:13 am

Thanks again for all the info. I've created a simple and clear email to the dealership with the salient points you've shared (in particular the service manual and its instructions) plus the readout of my car's AH value of 25.5 from Canion. I'll update the group with the outcome once I hear more from the dealership. Genuinely grateful for the expertise shared in this forum. It's unfortunate a consumer has to become so knowledgeable about his vehicle in order to compel the manufacturer to fix it correctly.

GdB
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:06 pm

Re: Ah Rate And Full Charge

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:47 pm

Jonnoll99,

I just got my 2012 miev back from a dealer battery check up. I requested a copy of the detailed test results and got back 4 pages, with the first being most useful, and showing "Battery current capacity 26.1 Ah", and "Battery remaining capacity 25.3Ah". Prior to taking it there, the EVBatMon app showed 58%. They don't want to replace the main battery and used the opportunity to try to scam me into buying a $280 dealer 12V battery. Since it was an old, original battery, I did not want to argue it, so I bought a NAPA battery for $98.

How did you get them to replace the original battery? Did it fail to charge to 16 bars? Did it fail completely?

Mine charges to 16 bars. I suspect it should need replacement under warranty before the battery warranty expires in 2.5 years, depending on use.

Jonnoll99 wrote:Many thanks for the feedback and encouragement. I've called the dealership and I'll press the issue further. Now that I can see my car's actual AH reading of 25.5 and that the minimum expected value is 45, I have more specifics and context to frame my issue, something they're less likely to dismiss with "well, your range will vary."
My EVs: 2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV and 2019 Hyundai Kona Electric SEL

Jonnoll99
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:23 pm

Re: Ah Rate And Full Charge

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:14 pm

It was a lot of back and forth to get the battery replaced, but ultimately it was the turtle mode kicking in at 8-10 bars remaining that made them take action. The car wouldn’t travel above 35 mph despite showing a 50% remaining charge per the number of bars in the fuel gauge. I expect that had my capacity merely been severely diminished but the car performed as expected, They would have argued non warranty repair eligible normal degradation. My car was charging to 16 bars. And it was somewhere in the 25ah range when the battery was initially replaced.

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