Soon To Be a New MIEV Owner

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BillThompsonMIEV

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
137
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Hello out there. With any kind of luck I will be the the owner of a 2012 MIEV in about 12 days. Still working out a few details with the dealer, but it looks promising. I have read a lot of the posts and there is good information on the forum. Sometimes a challenge to find it, however. My questions at first may seem naive, but here goes question # 1. I am trying to figure out the amount of electricity that will be consumed when I "fill up" the vehicle using the Level 1 charger provided. For instance, if it takes 10 hours to bring the charge level up to 16 bars, does that mean I have consumed 10 kWh of electricity to "fill up". I suspect the answer is not that simple, so any thoughts on this matter are appreciated. Bill Thompson of San Antonio,TX.
 
Hi Bill, and welcome as a soon-to-be new iMiEV owner. Hope you're able to work things out with your dealer.

The answer is indeed quite simple: at 120vac the iMiEV draws 0.9KW of power from the wall through Mitsubishi Level 1 EVSE.

If you have the car plugged in and charging for ten hours, you have drawn 10hrs*0.9KW = 9kWhr of energy from the wall.

I usually figure about 0.8 bars/Level1charginghour, so in ten hours at this 120vac Level 1 charging you will add about 8 bars on the fuel gauge.

To finish the story, until you figure out what your own energy consumption is (miles/kWhr or kWhr/mile or kWhr/100miles) you can think of one bar on the fuel gauge to be roughly equal to four miles of driving.

Hope this helps.
 
It is indeed pretty simple to 'guesstimate' the cost of fuel, but maybe counting hours on the charger isn't the most accurate way because the charger spends the last hour or so polishing and finishing the charge, so it's not always drawing as much juice during that final hour as it is during the other hours - If you just let it charge 6 or 8 hours with the supplied Level 1 chargers and never get a full charge though, Joe's .9 number will serve you very well

It's a 16 Kw battery and by strange coincidence, the 'fuel' gauges shows 16 bars, so each one is thought to approximate 1 Kw of stored energy and you can approximate what one bar of energy is worth by checking your electric bill to see how much you pay for a Kwh or juice

Joe is a very experienced Ev'er and he's kept track of all the power several of his cars draw from the wall vs how many miles he's driven them and for our iMiEV it works out to be something between 4 and 4.5 miles per Kw, depending on how and where you drive and whatever climate controls you use. Since the charge process is never 100% efficient, it takes slightly more Kwh's from the wall to store that same amount of energy in the batteries, so the total amount is used (from the wall, not from the battery) is termed 'wall to wheels'. You'll find his discussions on this topic here on the forum. http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=494&p=2732&hilit=wall+to+wheels#p2732

Anyway, long story short, if you need to know ABOUT what it costs to drive, you can divide your electricity cost per Kwh from your electric bill by 4 and you'll have a rough idea. If you pay 12 cents for a Kwh of electricity, then driving your new iMiEV will cost you about 3 cents a mile

Don
 
Don't just think about the cost to 'fill up' either, think about the reduced maintenance requirements this vehicle has as well. Your first service appoint is at 15k miles and it only covers like three items. You'll be in and out of the service bay in less than a 1/2 hour. With an I.C.E car you'd have covered at least three service appointments by the time your "i" has it's first one.

The car is well built and has been on the world's roads since 2006 in one form or another. You don't have to worry about this being a new vehicle and we are all 'bug-testers'. The reports from users in Europe who have been driving this for more than a year are all good. No major problems or issues.

I've had my "i" for several weeks now and have had no issues whatsoever with it. It's absolutely perfect in everyway and darn fun to drive. I use mine as a 'long' distance commuter putting on 85-100km a day and I usually have about 3-4 bars remaining when I pull in the driveway.

Another benefit was a lower insurance cost than my 2008 Nissan Versa that I traded in for the "i".

But, not dealing with gas anymore is the best benefit.
 
Thanks to all who posted comments on my first question/post. Our local utility here in San Antonio, TX does not have time of day pricing, but rather surcharges when there is heavy demand on the grid. Bottom line is the cost for electricity is about 11 cents per kw hour. So I guess what the cost per mile for me will be about 3 cents per mile driven. Managed to get final details on purchase of my MIEV. It's a done deal. Sign finance/purchase documents on 25 Jul 12 and take delivery on 31 Jul 12. Have a scheduled appointment with an Aero Vironment electrician to do initial assessment for a Level 2 Charging Station on 6 Aug 12, with a request for an earlier appointment if one opens up. Again, thanks for all the information. Bill Thompson of San Antonio.
 
BillThompsonMIEV said:
Have a scheduled appointment with an Aero Vironment electrician to do initial assessment for a Level 2 Charging Station on 6 Aug 12, with a request for an earlier appointment if one opens up. Again, thanks for all the information. Bill Thompson of San Antonio.
If your appointment ends with you getting a ridiculous quote for installing your Level 2 charger, keep in mind that for about $300 you can have the OEM supplied Level 1 8 amp charger modified to do Level 1 and 2 at 13 amps - All you would need is a suitable 120 and/or 240 volt outlet to plug it into

Prices for EVSE's and their installation are quite high right now and once they become more common, I'm sure prices will drop. If you decide to wait, getting the EVSE that comes with the car modified by the guys at www.evseupgrade.com would certainly handle all your needs while you shop around for the best 'built in' Level 2 deal you can find

Don
 
1.Hello out there. Well, I am one step closer to being an owner. Today I did documents signing and will pick up my Miev on 31 Jul 12. For those that are interested, I purchased a 2012 Miev SE with an out the door price of $22,515. Some details on the pricing: MSRP was $31,975; discounted price with dealer installed accessories of a rear cargo mat and window tint made the price of the Miev $30,770 (about a $1,420 discount, or about a 5% discount). Also purchased a dealer seven year extended warranty (I know they are not worth it, but peace of mind). Other dollars involved were taxes, title, licensing, and document preparation fees. Traded in my 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid as part of the deal. I will fully qualify for the $7,500 tax credit when I file my 2012 tax return in February 2013. Already ran the numbers on my tax return, and my tax liability will be greater than $7,500. If more pricing details wanted, send me a PM.

2. Met the dealership service manager and chief technician for the Miev servicing. Both are nice people, but the Miev is new, and their only experience is based on the certification training they went through with Mitsubishi, in order for the dealer to be authorized to sell the Miev. Appears this dealer has only sold about four or five Miev's.

3. On 26 Jul 12 have an electrician coming out to install a dedicated 120 volt/15amp outlet in garage. I have decided to defer installation of level 2 charging system in the garage for the time being.

4. In the trivia department the last five of the VIN is is 22334. I wonder if that means my Miev is the 334th one manufactured? Life goes on. Bill Thompson
 
BillThompsonMIEV said:
3. On 26 Jul 12 have an electrician coming out to install a dedicated 120 volt/15amp outlet in garage...
Bill, if he's going to run the wires anyway, I'd be inclined to have the electrician put in a four-wire 240v outlet, and at a higher current if your source panel allows. That way you can use it for whatever you want... ;)


Update 7/26/12: Of course, we must never do anything to violate the Code. Specifically, if your panel allows, I would run two separate circuits:

1) A dedicated 120v 20A NEMA 5-20R receptacle.

2) A dedicated 240V 50A NEMA 14-50R. This would be way overkill for now but at least the wire would be in place for use with a future Level 2 EVSE, especially if you get another electric car with a 6.6kW onboard charger.

This will ensure that an adequate gauge wire is installed in both circuits. In the future, you would then match the circuit breaker and connector to your load - for example, if you went the EVSE Upgrade route, you would put in a 20A circuit breaker and an L6-20 receptacle on the 240V line. I don't know what the present code requirements are regarding GFCI for EVs.
 
JoeS said:
Bill, if he's going to run the wires anyway, I'd be inclined to have the electrician put in a four-wire 240v outlet, and at a higher current if your source panel allows.
What current would you recommend to future-proof the installation?

The power to our condo building is 3-phase, so we have 120Y/208 rather than 120/240 power. How would the EVSE modified for 240 v. respond to 208 v.?

Could a couple of 120 v. outlets be included with a 208 v. outlet without running additional wires back to the main panel and without requiring an additional breaker?
 
Most modern 220 volt devices will work on 208. All will, that I know of.

In theory you can take a branch off a 220 volt circuit and make a 110v outlet, but code prohibits it as each circuit needs to be protected at the distribution panel with an appropriate circuit breaker.

For the Miev, a 20 amp 220 volt circuit would be fine. You need three conductors and a ground. The ground could be a metallic ground. Gauge #12 wire would be fine. If you are running a conduit, you could run a slightly larger one, (3/4") and run two additional #12s for the 110 volt circuit...total of five wires plus a metallic ground. If you are running Romax or plastic covered wiring, then you will need to make two runs.

If you want a 30 amp circuit, you need to run #10 gauge wire...but I don't think it is really necessary.

PS...Although I have put in a 220 volt 30 amp circuit for my Miev, I still use the 120 volt charger. Those 220 volt chargers are still ridiculously expensive for what you get. C'est la vie.
 
Bill, please see the update I made to my post above. Another consideration is receptacle location: think about where and how you will be parking your car. For example, I mounted my EVSE on the right just inside my garage door so I only need a short (3'-4') length of cord to plug in my car which I park very close to the wall. Its pretty unobtrusive, and I can also charge the car if it's parked outside. Another alternative is to have the EVSE on the left side of the garage further in so that you could back in and also keep the cord short. I often plug in many times a day and it's nice to have the short cord.
 
alohart said:
JoeS said:
Bill, if he's going to run the wires anyway, I'd be inclined to have the electrician put in a four-wire 240v outlet, and at a higher current if your source panel allows.
What current would you recommend to future-proof the installation?
alohart, I'd be inclined to make it 50A which will be more than adequate to cover a future vehicle 6.6kW charger. When running new wire I always like to oversize to minimize voltage drops and I like to use oversized connectors (which match the wire) to reduce contact heating effects.

alohart said:
The power to our condo building is 3-phase, so we have 120Y/208 rather than 120/240 power. How would the EVSE modified for 240 v. respond to 208 v.?
alohart, it's the onboard charger rather than the EVSE that's the issue. I believe the iMiEV onboard charger handles 208v just fine. I've been told that the commercial public-access EVSEs around here use 208v.

alohart said:
Could a couple of 120 v. outlets be included with a 208 v. outlet without running additional wires back to the main panel and without requiring an additional breaker?
Sorry, dunno the answer to that one. I typically like to have each line individually circuit breakered.
 
While we're on the topic of EVSE wiring I just ran 8 gauge wiring to a 50 amp 220 outlet in my garage because I picked up a new GE wattstation EVSE for $560 on e-bay. The GE is a 30 amp EVSE which the i doesn't need but what happens when my next EV has a 7200 watt charger? I would rather overbuild now to save a lot of work tomorrow.
About level 1 vs level 2 charging. If you look level 2 EVSEs are out there for not much more than level 1 EVSEs and they charge twice as fast. The other weekend my wife did a morning freeway trip of around 45 miles, came home, plugged in, ate lunch, and went on another trip in the afternoon if we would have used a level 1 EVSE she would not have charged enough to make the afternoon trip.
 
First, there are no 110 or 220 volt circuits in the USA - They are all 120 or 240 unless they originate from a 3 phase source in which case they would be 120 and 208

It would be difficult and expensive to install a 50 amp circuit in most garages, and for this car it would also be a waste of money. You may never own a car with a 6.6Kw charger built in and even if you some day do buy one, a 30 amp circuit would charge it - Running the correct size wire for 50 amps would be a major expense if the run was more than a few feet and almost totally unnecessary . . . . unless you like to weld. Using a 50 amp breaker requires either 8 gauge or 6 gauge wires, depending on the length and the wire alone would cost you up to $2 per foot, compared to less than 50 cents per foot for the 12/3 this car actually requires

For this car, a dedicated 3 wire 120 volt circuit with either a 15 or a 20 amp breaker would suffice - You can do that with 12/3 wire if the distance is less than 100 feet or so. So long as you're running 12 gauge wire, you might as well use a 20 amp breaker. For Level 2 charging, a 3 wire 240 volt circuit with a pair of 20 amp breakers in the panel will be plenty and this can also be done with 12/3 wire. For less than $100, I ran two new circuits from the 60 amp panel already in my garage and I plug my upgraded OEM EVSE into one or the other, depending on how quickly I need to recharge

I already have a 50 amp, 240 socket in my garage (it runs my wifes ceramic kiln) plus a 30 amp 240 volt socket (my 5 HP air compressor is plugged into that one) but since I can't imagine ever needing more than 20 amps @ 240 for car charging, that's all I installed for my EVSE(s)

Lastly, the OEM EVSE after upgrading by www.evseupgrade.com will 'charge plugged into any ordinary socket on the planet' as it can handle anything from 100 volts up to 240 - 208 is no problem. The plug they install on the upgraded EVSE is a NEMA L6-20 240 volt plug, so it's not designed for more than 20 amps. There ARE aftermarket Level 2 chargers which are designed for 30 amps (some even for 50 amps) but our car will never draw more than 15 or 16 amps from the wall no matter what EVSE you're using, which is why I would save my money and just install a 20 amp circuit using 12 gauge wire. True, if you want to go overboard and install a 30 amp 240 outlet, it won't hurt anything . . . . but you'll have to use 10 gauge wire and if it's a long run, that will cost you some extra $$$

Don
 
Don said:
It would be difficult and expensive to install a 50 amp circuit in most garages, and for this car it would also be a waste of money. You may never own a car with a 6.6Kw charger built in and even if you some day do buy one, a 30 amp circuit would charge it - Running the correct size wire for 50 amps would be a major expense if the run was more than a few feet and almost totally unnecessary . . . . unless you like to weld. Using a 50 amp breaker requires either 8 gauge or 6 gauge wires, depending on the length and the wire alone would cost you up to $2 per foot, compared to less than 50 cents per foot for the 12/3 this car actually requires
Don

In my case I am currently building my garage and the EVSE recommended a 40amp breaker and required a NEMA 6-50 outlet. I installed a 40 amp breaker but I ran wiring rated for 50 amps because the outlet is rated for 50 amps. The point I was making is that $100 for the heavier wire is nothing compared to the costs of installing new wire later.
 
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