Don
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Battery Problem - Turtle With Several Bars Left

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:51 pm

I have no idea, but hopefully you guys can maybe tell me what to look at

We bought a third car, a 2012 SE Premium with 27,000 miles on it. Had about 1/4 charge when I drove it off the car lot to the house. Full recharge netted an RR of only 40, which gave me a bit of pause. Aired up the tires to 40 and took it for a test drive to see what shape the battery is in. Drove it 40 miles and the RR still said 17, so probably those who demo'ed it on the car lot were all flooring it every chance they got to see how much power it has?

Anyway, about 4 or 5 miles from home with 4 bars of battery left and 18 or 19 RR, the Turtle light came on and the car started slowing down, eventually getting down to maybe 20 mph max, so I pulled over and let it sit for a few minutes . . . . thinking maybe something was getting hot. Turtle went out and we're on our way again, but in less than a mile, same thing all over again. Stopped and let it cool a bit two more times and made it home OK. Nothing smells bad, there's no 'crinkling' noises like it's too hot or anything

What say you? Turtle comes on with plenty of battery and many miles left to go . . . . and the car slows down. On the plus side, it seems to be a really nice car . . . . not a scratch on it, nor on any of the wheels. Yokohomas on the back and mismatched, nearly bald tires on the front. Clean as a whistle and the battery seems OK . . . . but in 8 years with 2 cars, I have ZERO experience with the turtle and was shocked to see (and feel) it come on with so much battery left. Here's hoping it's nothing serious, 'cause the car seems like a keeper and now that Carolyn finally has the Raspberry Metallic she's wanted since day one, there's no way I can talk her out of it! :lol:

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, Raspberry Metallic
2012 iMiEV SE, White
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Don
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Re: Possible Cooling System Problem??

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:16 pm

Well, it's not hot - In fact, after a 40 mile drive on an 80 degree day, everything under the back cover is as cool as a cucumber . . . . much cooler than I would have expected in a normally operating car. The motor and transmission were barely warm to the touch. The coolant reservoirs in both the front and back are full of clean, new looking coolant with no heat in it at all. I can hear the pump running intermittently while it's recharging, just as normal

Now I'm really perplexed - Why the turtle after 40 miles and why does it go away (for a bit) if the car sits for 5 minutes??

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, Raspberry Metallic
2012 iMiEV SE, White
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kiev
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Re: Possible Cooling System Problem??

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:45 pm

Howdy Don,

i'm in the exact same boat. i found a silver 2012 premium SE and checked the pack with canion--it was flat top all cells within 5 mV. Only said 40 miles RR, but i thought previous driver had lead foot, etc. Turns out as it is driven there is a bad cell that is laying down, which pulls down the average, and which causes Turtle with 5-8 bars showing. The bars are still high due to the average pack voltage, but when that cell drops it causes the turtle. i'm wishing that cell would just fail so i can replace the pack, but it charges up to 16 bars, 36-40RR, so i doubt they would consider it bad.

Any ideas how to get a bad cell to just go totally bad?

Good luck and keep safe during this coronaggeden.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

Don
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Re: Possible Cooling System Problem??

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:13 pm

Thanks Kiev! - I was hoping I'd hear from you :D

I guess I need to take another stab at Canion. 2 or 3 years ago, I loaded it on my Android tablet, bought the recommended dongle, but could never get it to work on either of my cars. Don't recall now my exact symptoms, but I think the car established communications with the tablet, but Canion didn't work

Odd thing is, the car had about 4 battery bars when I left the dealership to drive it home and I don't think it experienced the turtle . . . . but, now that I think about it, I think it went through 3 battery bars in about 6 or 7 miles, so I suspect your diagnosis is spot on!

You don't think Mitsu would honor a battery warranty replacement for turtle and 20 mph with 4 bars of battery remaining?? Not sure of their definition, but that would seem to indicate a failed battery to me

Didn't plan to title or register this car for the next 2 or 3 months, so it may be awhile before anything gets resolved

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
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kiev
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Re: Possible Cooling System Problem??

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:34 pm

Does it charge up full to 16 bars, or does charging stop before? i was surprised that a bad cell would charge back up with all the rest of them, but then fall so fast to get the pack out of line. i've got it sitting with about 5 bars showing 20RR, and i take it out for a couple of miles every few days--trying to run it down without hitting turtle to get all of them down to the bottom. i think if i do that then it may "fail" to hit the top on recharge. i know at least one criteria for a pack replace is fails to charge to 16 bars. Anything else they could claim as normal degradation, wear and tear, etc.

The tech will put it on charge, then do the discharge test in the shop, then put it on charge again. If it won't hit 16 bars then you won a new pack.

i bought it to use as a test/demo car for friends and family--give it to them to drive for a week and get them hooked. But a 40 mile car with turtle is not a good sales tool.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

Don
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Re: Possible Cooling System Problem??

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:16 pm

Only fully recharged it once so far. It not only went to 16, but I went 6 or 7 miles before it dropped to 15 and I was patting myself on the back at that point - Good battery! . . . . or so I was beginning to think

It's recharging now and we'll see what the next RR is and go from there. Your idea of getting it discharged to zero bars and then recharging sounds like a plan. This car hasn't had the vacuum pump recall done yet either. I just had it done on our other two and developed a working relationship with the service manager at the closest dealer to me - He went to bat with Mitsu and got both of our cars transported to his shop and back for the recall, so I'll see what he has to say about this one and *maybe* he can do something about a new battery *before* it gets to where it won't fully recharge - I hope, I hope, I hope!

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, Raspberry Metallic
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon

Don
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Re: Possible Cooling System Problem??

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:37 pm

It recharged to a full 16 bars and an RR of 60 - Much better than the 40 on the previous charge, but not where it should be after a careful 40 mile trip at a leisurely 40 to 45 mph

Now . . . . how to get it discharged again without driving it?? - I don't have it registered or insured yet. Turn the on the key to Ready and leave it parked for a couple days??

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, Raspberry Metallic
2012 iMiEV SE, White
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veimi
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Re: Possible Cooling System Problem??

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:10 pm

I was just curious if when charging you are disconnecting the charger when the battery reaches 16 bars or are you letting it continue as the cells balance?

If my memory serves me on 120V , from 1 bar mine reaches 16 bars in about 16 hours, but will continue charging for another 6 hours before the charge indicator light turns off.

JoeS
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Re: Possible Cooling System Problem??

Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:53 am

By all means, I'd assume that the car was sitting for most of its life. Repeatedly topping off (thus balancing the cells) might help.

Don, it's like with the virus, without testing you don't know what's going on. I would focus on getting your Android and CaniOn working, and a couple of the OBDLinks are the only Bluetooth that will give you Ah with CaniOn. Be sure you have the latest CaniOn app installed. Threatening my Android tablet with tossing it into the septic tank usually gets it to shape up... :roll:
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
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PV1
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Re: Possible Cooling System Problem??

Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:00 am

My theories are a weak cell or a battery pack that’s been sitting a long time.

As for discharging without driving, running the heater would be the quickest way. It should automatically turn off when the turtle appears. Or, if you have a garage that needs dehumidified, park it inside and run the A/C.
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