DBMandrake
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: new program for monitoring charge readings

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:56 am

Serhge wrote:
DBMandrake wrote:What do you mean by "voltage smoothing" in this context ?

special function
cell balancing,
cell voltage equalization.

Ah ok, I understand.

Voltage smoothing is confusing terminology, cell balancing would be the best terminology in English.

That's a very useful feature to have - I can see the state of the cell balancing transistors in Diagbox/Lexia but it is very inconvenient and I often wish that Canion would add support for showing cell balancing status on the cell voltage graph...

I'm a registered user of Hobdrive on the beta channel BTW so I will check soon to see if the cell balancing display is there. :)
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

Serhge
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:35 pm

Re: new program for monitoring charge readings

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:06 pm

coming soon beta test version, check


DBMandrake
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: new program for monitoring charge readings

Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:05 am

Serhge wrote:http://hobdrive.com/download/hobd/hobd-android-1.5.45.apk

Hi,

I downloaded the latest Beta version in the Play store yesterday (not sure if it is exactly the same version listed above) and tried the new features and noticed a bug. The cell voltages reported in the 88 cells screen are too low. Here is what is reported by the 88 cells screen in Hobdrive at 71% SoC:

Image

At the same time here are the cell voltages reported by Canion:

Image

The 88 cells screen voltages are also inconsistent with the min and max voltages reported by the BMS ECU on another screen in Hobdrive:

Image

Also I'm puzzled by the smoothing feature - I was expecting to see a list of the balancer states of all 88 cells but instead it looks like the smoothing page is designed to initiate cell balancing as an actuator test ? I presume this can only be done when the car is already plugged in charging ? (As it did nothing when I tried it)

Perhaps you can explain how the cell smoothing screen is intended to be used.

I also checked the 66 cell temperatures screen - this was OK and figures agreed with Canion.

My car is a 2011 Ion.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

Serhge
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:35 pm

Re: new program for monitoring charge readings

Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:22 pm

the difference between Canion and hobdrayv is that in hobdrayv all functions are made according to the principle of the original diagnostic program Mut3 and all indications are updated in real time, Canion receives all the data listening and filtering the flow of information and this takes time. In hobdrive, all readings should be viewed in the BMU tab, the balancing tab shows directly the voltage that the inverter uses, and not the voltage that the VVB battery has. balancing is activated on charging up to 50%
It also turns on without pressing a button, but these are different functions.
look at the obdzero version 3.0 program, David also reworked all the readings and they now coincide with the original Mut3, as well as in hobdrive, only hobdrive has a very large functionality, unlike competitors.
and hobdrive version 1.5.45 has a different formula for polling all cells than version 1.5.44.
version 1.5.45 is still being tested and refined.

СМU1 - 12 , cmu has indications with three digits after the decimal point ( 0,000 ) , see these tabs

DBMandrake
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: new program for monitoring charge readings

Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:34 am

Serhge wrote:the difference between Canion and hobdrayv is that in hobdrayv all functions are made according to the principle of the original diagnostic program Mut3 and all indications are updated in real time, Canion receives all the data listening and filtering the flow of information and this takes time.

Actually it doesn't take much time - cell voltages update very quickly in Canion, I find hobdrive to update quite slowly by comparison as it has to manually poll the information instead of just listening to broadcasts.
In hobdrive, all readings should be viewed in the BMU tab, the balancing tab shows directly the voltage that the inverter uses, and not the voltage that the VVB battery has. balancing is activated on charging up to 50%

The BMU page also disagrees with the voltages in the 88 cells page. BMU page is correct, 88 cells page is incorrect.
look at the obdzero version 3.0 program, David also reworked all the readings and they now coincide with the original Mut3, as well as in hobdrive, only hobdrive has a very large functionality, unlike competitors.

I've looked at obd-zero before and unfortunately there are some large errors in the data that it reports including voltages, so I stopped using it. I don't consider it to be a trustworthy source of information.
and hobdrive version 1.5.45 has a different formula for polling all cells than version 1.5.44.
version 1.5.45 is still being tested and refined.

СМU1 - 12 , cmu has indications with three digits after the decimal point ( 0,000 ) , see these tabs

I'm sorry but I simply can't agree - the voltage readings on the 88 cells screen are incorrect on the latest version of Hobdrive, and by a long way. They read far too low, so there is an error in your calculation of the voltages.

MUT3 is for the i-Miev. I have a Lexia 3 running Diagbox which is the official diagnostic tool for Citroen/Peugeot and therefore C-Zero and Ion and it agrees with Canion not the readings shown by the latest beta build of Hobdrive.

If you don't believe me I attach a screenshot taken directly from Diagbox of one of the BMU's taken at 100% charge after resting over night:

Image

As you can see voltages are between 4.075 and 4.085. I also checked all other BMU's but did not include screenshots as they were all within the same range.

In these conditions Canion reports 4.075 - 4.085 volts (correct) and Hobdrive beta's 88 cells page reports values from 3.95 - 3.98 volts. (incorrect) It's simple knowledge that 3.95 volts is not a fully charged lithium Ion battery as these cars charge the cells to exactly 4.1 volts, so 3.95 - 3.98 cannot be correct.

I don't know how you're calculating the voltages but for my 2011 Ion they are simply wrong and do not agree with the official Peugeot diagnostic tool. The error seems to be greater at low state of charge. The calculation in previous versions of Hobdrive was correct.
Last edited by DBMandrake on Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

Serhge
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:35 pm

Re: new program for monitoring charge readings

Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:58 am

DBMandrake wrote:
Serhge wrote:the difference between Canion and hobdrayv is that in hobdrayv all functions are made according to the principle of the original diagnostic program Mut3 and all indications are updated in real time, Canion receives all the data listening and filtering the flow of information and this takes time.

Actually it doesn't take much time - cell voltages update very quickly in Canion, I find hobdrive to update quite slowly by comparison as it has to manually poll the information instead of just listening to broadcasts.
In hobdrive, all readings should be viewed in the BMU tab, the balancing tab shows directly the voltage that the inverter uses, and not the voltage that the VVB battery has. balancing is activated on charging up to 50%

The BMU page also disagrees with the voltages in the 88 cells page. BMU page is correct, 88 cells page is incorrect.
look at the obdzero version 3.0 program, David also reworked all the readings and they now coincide with the original Mut3, as well as in hobdrive, only hobdrive has a very large functionality, unlike competitors.

I've looked at obd-zero before and unfortunately there are some large errors in the data that it reports including voltages, so I stopped using it. I don't consider it to be a trustworthy source of information.
and hobdrive version 1.5.45 has a different formula for polling all cells than version 1.5.44.
version 1.5.45 is still being tested and refined.

СМU1 - 12 , cmu has indications with three digits after the decimal point ( 0,000 ) , see these tabs

I'm sorry but I simply can't agree - the voltage readings on the 88 cells screen are incorrect on the latest version of Hobdrive, and by a long way. They read far too low, so there is an error in your calculation of the voltages.

MUT3 is for the i-Miev. I have a Lexia 3 running Diagbox which is the official diagnostic tool for Citroen/Peugeot and therefore C-Zero and Ion and it agrees with Canion not the readings shown by the latest beta build of Hobdrive.

If you don't believe me I attach a screenshot taken directly from Diagbox of one of the BMU's taken at 100% charge after resting over night:

Image

As you can see voltages are between 4.075 and 4.085. I also checked all other BMU's but did not include screenshots as they were all within the same range.

In these conditions Canion reports 4.075 - 4.085 volts (correct) and Hobdrive beta's 88 cells page reports values from 3.95 - 3.98 volts. (incorrect) It's simple knowledge that 3.95 volts is not a fully charged lithium Ion battery as these cars charge the cells to exactly 4.1 volts, so 3.95 - 3.98 cannot be correct.

I don't know how you're calculating the voltages but for my 2011 Ion they are simply wrong and do not agree with the official Peugeot diagnostic tool. The error seems to be greater at low state of charge. The calculation in previous versions of Hobdrive was correct.

OK! in fact, your testing is very important, I have something to compare, there is diagnostic equipment.
so while everything is within the margin of error. and it is still possible that you need to calibrate Elm327 by voltage, by the way there is a difference in the survey formulas, so this is quite possible.
only the one who does nothing is mistaken.

for now, we recommend using version 1.5.44.

And yet, in the cell readings in volts after the comma, the third digit can not have any number, except for 5. therefore, some formulas can be rounded in any direction.
but even with this calculation, the difference in testimony is less than what you wrote. it means you have to look at where inaccuracy occurs in the calculation.

DBMandrake
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: new program for monitoring charge readings

Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:59 am

Serhge wrote:OK! in fact, your testing is very important, I have something to compare, there is diagnostic equipment.
so while everything is within the margin of error. and it is still possible that you need to calibrate Elm327 by voltage, by the way there is a difference in the survey formulas, so this is quite possible.
only the one who does nothing is mistaken.

for now, we recommend using version 1.5.44.

And yet, in the cell readings in volts after the comma, the third digit can not have any number, except for 5. therefore, some formulas can be rounded in any direction.
but even with this calculation, the difference in testimony is less than what you wrote. it means you have to look at where inaccuracy occurs in the calculation.

Just to be clear, I'm not complaining - I just wanted to point out what seems to be a bug in a new beta version.

I'm happy to do testing with Diagbox, Hobdrive and Canion with my car to get further information and further cross check the data provided in Hobdrive against that reported in Diagbox.

Just let me know what testing you would like, for example taking voltage readings at a few different levels of SoC to compare with Diagbox.

I would trust the official dealer diagnostic tool that I have over anything else, and as far as I know the authors of Canion directly compared to Diagbox when they originally derived how to decode the cell voltage readings.. and in my testing the cell voltage readings of Canion have always been in exact agreement with Diagbox, at least on my 2011 Ion.

Some things may have changed in later cars, for example the heater fluid temperature calculation changed in later cars and Canion has an "old heater" checkbox to enable the old calculation. My 2011 car needs the "old heater" option to give correct heater fluid temperature.

Maybe some later cars use a different calculation for cell voltages. Canion is not able to read cell voltages on 2015 and later cars.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”