The real benefit of the iMiev for Mitsubishi might be...

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Llecentaur

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Messages
240
That they have had thousands of reliable battery pack and rear wheel engine and drive train being tested across the world.

Even if they do not go ahead with a bigger commercialisation, don't you think there is a market between car makers to buy this battery and drive train and combine it with a front wheel drive diesel engine, thus giving a hybrid four wheel drive with plug-in capabilies (50 km range).

For example Volvo has just announced the new V60 and from good sources I heared they will follow with the XC90...

Would bet more of these in the streets in two years.
 
Llecentaur said:
That they have had thousands of reliable battery pack and rear wheel engine and drive train being tested across the world.
Could be, I suppose - But virtually every other manufacturer who has gone into this venture with that sort of thinking has only allowed the 'testers' to lease the car, so that when the 'test' is over, it's over . . . . they get the cars back and have no further obligation to support them with warranties and spare parts. If Mitsu was thinking of using all of us a testers, they sure went about it in a very unusual way, so I really doubt that was their thinking

I don't see this platform as practical for a diesel hybrid, nor as 4 wheel drive . . . . unless it's as a pure EV with 4 wheel drive. There's no room to put a diesel engine into this platform along with the EV drive . . . . if they were even of thinking of something along those lines in the future, they would have picked a completely different car to build on and not the I car

Don
 
...it fits in my garage? :D

I have a newer house built in the last ten years and these now houses have very small garages. In my neigborhood, most people don't park cars in them - just use them for storage is all. In these cold temps, having a garage is mandatory with an EV. My little EV is the only one that would allow for this.
 
Hi Don,

I see your point about leasing for testing vs selling.

Re platforms, I was referring the the back drive train, electrical engine, battery and it's management rather than the rest of the car which I agree is not appropriate for a hybrid.

I mean, if I was a car manufacturer without the means to go through all that R&D, I would definitely rely on the iMiev's propulsion system as an EV building part into another, larger car. The only part to develop would be the coexistence of the ICE front wheel drive with the E back wheel drive...

Coming back to your first point, if Mitsubishi did really design the iMiev for the sole purpose of selling it and maintaining it with customers, then the success path as a cheap EV would be to keep lowering the price tag while maintaining its attractiveness vs competititon through the extension of the range through battery upgrading... Just daydreaming :)
 
Llecentaur said:
I mean, if I was a car manufacturer without the means to go through all that R&D, I would definitely rely on the iMiev's propulsion system as an EV building part into another, larger car. The only part to develop would be the coexistence of the ICE front wheel drive with the E back wheel drive...
That would be an unusual way to develop a hybrid - You would have the rear wheel drive EV turning all of the ICE front drive components (axles, differential, transmission, etc) when in the pure EV mode, which would lower your EV efficicncy

A better way to go it seems to me would be to do it like the Volt does - Build a pure EV, either two or 4 wheel drive (using two electric motors) and then have a small, very efficient engine (a little 750cc Kubota diesel if you like) driving an alternator to make juice to extend the range

I have a tiny 3 cylinder, 20 hp Kubota diesel garden tractor which would be a perfect engine for such a project - Small, lightweight and runs all day on a gallon of diesel. One big advantage to doing it this way is that your little engine can be operated at a constant speed (the optimum speed for the engine to get the best economy) all the time, which is something diesels do best - The little diesel in my sailboat would move the 15,000 pound boat along at a good clip while consuming only about 3/4 gallon an hour. I think you could build a very fuel efficient hybrid EV using a little diesel and the iMiEV drive system which would go a long, long way, using very little fuel - It might not have the zero to sixty times the Volt has, but it would sure burn less fuel

Don
 
Why would MM want to turn an exquisitely simple EV into a complex diesel exhaust spewing hybrid? Sure, it could use a little more range, but you have to accept the car for what it was designed for, and what it is. Namely, a city/suburban/run around town car that is easy to park. It is not a pack the family in and lets drive to Disney World in the snow car.

We really should stop imposing ICE-like characteristics on the EV of today. Simple cars like the iMiev and the Leaf are more likely to be successful IMHO than things like the Tesla. I'm not saying there is no place for the Tesla, I just don't think that with batteries being where they are at this moment, and costs being what they are, that it is more likely to succeed than the iMiev. (in spite of MMs poor marketing right now).

Other than some little creature comforts like an easier to move gearshift, and a little more range, I don't really wish anything.
 
Haven't you seen the 2014MY Outlander PHEV? On sale in Europe and Japan -- coming to the US in 4th QTR 2103.

AWD, super clean gasoline "range extender", proven electric drive/battery system...

Question answered? ;)
 
fjpod said:
Why would MM want to turn an exquisitely simple EV into a complex diesel exhaust spewing hybrid?
I have no idea - It would be messing up a good thing for sure
Sure, it could use a little more range, but you have to accept the car for what it was designed for, and what it is. Namely, a city/suburban/run around town car that is easy to park. It is not a pack the family in and lets drive to Disney World in the snow car.
I agree 100% - It is what it is and it does what it was designed to do very well. Those seeking to make major modifications to it probably bought the wrong car
We really should stop imposing ICE-like characteristics on the EV of today. Simple cars like the iMiev and the Leaf are more likely to be successful IMHO than things like the Tesla. I'm not saying there is no place for the Tesla, I just don't think that with batteries being where they are at this moment, and costs being what they are, that it is more likely to succeed than the iMiev. (in spite of MMs poor marketing right now).
True - The iMiEV works so well because it is compact, lightweight and nimble - The Tesla is none of those. It's really an EV pretending to be a conventional car. I suppose there are some folks who are looking for something like that before they will ever consider moving away from their ICE powered cars . . . . what remains to be seen is are they willing to part with $75K to get that

Don
 
Don said:
fjpod said:
We really should stop imposing ICE-like characteristics on the EV of today. Simple cars like the iMiev and the Leaf are more likely to be successful IMHO than things like the Tesla. I'm not saying there is no place for the Tesla, I just don't think that with batteries being where they are at this moment, and costs being what they are, that it is more likely to succeed than the iMiev. (in spite of MMs poor marketing right now).
True - The iMiEV works so well because it is compact, lightweight and nimble - The Tesla is none of those. It's really an EV pretending to be a conventional car. I suppose there are some folks who are looking for something like that before they will ever consider moving away from their ICE powered cars . . . . what remains to be seen is are they willing to part with $75K to get that

Every time new technology is introduced, the price is very high but the folks who are excited by the technology and can afford it buy it anyway. Those buyers allow the technology to grow from limited production to mass production and allow for the cost of the new technology to come down to the point that it can be mass marketed. This is what I hope will happen with the Tesla Model S and Model S buyers. They are the trailblazers who, if there are enough of them and if Telsa proves successful enough for other companies to copy, will lead to the growth of EV technology from niche to mass market.

The miracle of the i MiEV is that with this technology in its infancy, Mitsu has produced a car that meets the needs/expectations of many consumers at a price that isn't out of reach. I like to think of the MiEV as the Commodore 64 of EV technology. Unfortunately the MiEV hasn't attracted the interest of the mass market like the Commodore 64 did, I think because the technology hasn't been properly marketed and because consumers have not been convinced they need it or that it will change their lives. I suppose it's also because no matter how inexpensive a car is, buying one is a major investment and requires a great deal of forethought, unlike the Commodore 64 which was cheap enough to be bought on impulse.

I truly believe the Model S is an important and necessary step in EV technology. I hope that hundreds of thousands of people buy them, the same way I hoped hundreds of thousands of people would buy wide screen tv's when they first came out and were way out of my price range. My message to anyone seriously thinking about getting a Model S, "buy baby buy."
 
I would see It not as "turning an EV into a diesel spewing engine" but rather a cheap way to turn a cheap and proven diesel technology with no autonomy problem into a hybrid plug in capable of driving full electric for 40 miles or taking the family for a trip on normal fuel.

All of that while giving it 4WD capability, energy recuperation when slowing down, maybe even better road handling (4WD, electronic sensors, lower Center of gravity). No complex and fancy engine combination, the combination comes through the wheels-ground and chassis.

I have been dreaming of this for 15 years and could not understand why Toyota was making it so complicated and why Lexus 450H was not a diesel. Finally Volvo & Peugeot Citroen are doing it. Up to the consumers to support this combination that naturally bring excellent fuel economy on the highway (diesel) and excellent behavior in Town (EV) while allowing to save up to 100% on fossile fuel on maybe 50% of trips ( the shortest ones).
 
I have a Prius for my longer family trips or when I need to carry more passengers in comfort. It's a terrific car. It really gets 50+ mpg with a little effort. I call it my gas guzzler.

If the imiev had a dino fueled engine, I would not have bought it. Hybrid technology is quite complex, diesel or gasoline. It adds a whole nother layer of design and development expense which could be better spent on developing battery technology. It has its place, but you can't beat the simplicity of the imiev.

If MM was considering spending more on imiev development to extend its range, I would rather they spend it on batteries.
 
Carver001 said:
I am trying to get some know about iMiev. there are many brands Hybrid car which we found when we search for them. But what is the difference between those all and this Mitsubishi i-Miev.
One big difference is that a hybrid car is propelled by a traditional internal combustion engine with its fuel tank, fuel pump, intake and exhaust system, dangerous emissions, and everything that a normal internal combustion car has plus one or more electric motors and a battery pack. An i-MiEV is a pure electric vehicle, so it doesn't have all of the complexity and weight of an internal combustion engine, fuel tank, fuel pump, dangerous emissions, etc.
 
Mitsubishi certainly is an opaque company. My decision to purchase the IMiev was partly based upon the hugeness of the company and their electrical expertise. So far, this has proved-out. Their lack of advertising the Miev still has me somewhat puzzled. Either they are incompetent or have a longer range, word-wide plan in effect. I have a feeling the latter is true.

As independent and ICE-affiliated car manufacturers wring their hands and pray that the public accepts their electric concoctions, Mitsubishi plods along. So far, they have developed a reliable and relatively inexpensive electric car. The next logical move would be to expand the chassis and introduce plug-in technology. Being a two car family, I'm looking for a PHEV as a second car. Wallah ! They are introducing their PHEV SUV. It may be our next car.

Having solar at home, I'm saving thousands on gas already. I'd like to get gas usage down to a gallon or two a month. Go Mitsubishi !!
 
I agree that the iMiEV drivetrain could make a fine hybrid that's much simpler than the Prius (or Volt) approach. Dodge attempted the 'split drivetrain' thing with their Aspen/Durango prototypes, but they never got the desired MPG, and killed the project. For me (or any fleet operator), a vehicle with two completely independent redundant drivetrains would be worth a 'small' hit in weight and efficiency due to greater user control, ability to run after a major failure in either drivetrain, and perceived greater lifespan with reliability. Mitsu has already retasked our drivetrain in the MiniCab MiEV, but it is compact enough to throw under the rear end of just about any FWD, AWD, or 4x4 vehicle out there. Synchronizing the drivetrains should be very feasible for the full range of hybrid options (other than stationary recharging). Engine management for EV range extension, battery preservation on highway cruising, or even forced recharge when the driven load is less than the engine can supply should be a very achievable task. (Which is the concept behind the pusher trailer that I hope to have on the road this year.)
 
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