GdB
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:06 pm

Park locked until the charger is disconnected

Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:04 pm

The shifter should be locked in park until the charger is disconnected.

Mitsubishi please see this thread for all the mishaps:

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2346&start=20

If that's too expensive to fix with an i-MiEV recall, please at least add a loud annoying buzzer when trying to start with the charger plugged in!
My EVs: Mitsubishi Zero (2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV and 2014 Zero S 11.4 Motorcycle)

Don
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Location: Biloxi MS

Re: Park locked until the charger is disconnected

Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:03 pm

I would bet that any recall on any vehicle, no matter how simple the 'fix,' would cost upwards of $500 per vehicle when all of the associated costs were figured in - Probably closer to $1K. If it's that important to you, send them a check and see if you can't get the ball rolling . . . . but don't count on my contribution. I've spent some time (and a little money) taking ridiculous things like this OUT of some of my cars in the past. I recall specifically the extra pieces the factory added to make it where I could not remove the key from the ignition unless the shifter was first put in reverse - I hadn't had the car a month before I got rid of that one

Thankfully, such a recall on our cars will never happen and most of us wouldn't take the into the dealer to let them do that even if they tried

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

wmcbrine
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Re: Park locked until the charger is disconnected

Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:45 am

This might be something to keep in mind for future designs, but it doesn't merit a recall. I'd be annoyed if my car got a recall notice for this. (Like when my Prius got a recall to "fix" the gas pedal -- which they did by crudely sawing off part of it -- to prevent it becoming entrapped by the superfluous extra floormats that I didn't have, all due to the BS hysteria over "sudden acceleration". I ignored the notices.)

GdB
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:06 pm

Re: Park locked until the charger is disconnected

Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:10 am

Not all recalls are mandatory. This could be an optional one.
My EVs: Mitsubishi Zero (2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV and 2014 Zero S 11.4 Motorcycle)

Aerowhatt
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Re: Park locked until the charger is disconnected

Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:16 pm

GdB wrote:Not all recalls are mandatory. This could be an optional one.

If one wanted to automate such a park lock it would be pretty straight forward to design and install a simple system that accomplished (NO READY > NO SHIFTY)

Aerowhatt
2014 cool silver ES, acquired new 4/2015 (42.7ah at ~26K miles)
2014 Labrador Black Pearl ES, acquired new 3/2016 (41.5ah at ~15k miles)

PV1
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Re: Park locked until the charger is disconnected

Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:46 am

Aerowhatt wrote:If one wanted to automate such a park lock it would be pretty straight forward to design and install a simple system that accomplished (NO READY > NO SHIFTY)

Aerowhatt

Source power from somewhere that is only energized when READY (power steering relay perhaps?), power a relay that drives a servo which locks/unlocks the brake pedal interlock cable. When READY, the relay is energized and moves the servo to unlock the cable and allow shifting from Park. When not READY, the relay is de-energized and the servo locks the cable. This would have to be a relay with both NC and NO outputs with a servo bi-directional drive circuit (NC moves servo to lock position, NO moves servo to unlock position). This servo could move a piece of metal that holds the brake pedal interlock cable in place (making it like you never actually press the brake pedal) when not READY, but when car becomes READY, the servo moves the metal tab and allows the cable to move, letting the car shift out of park. I'll be going out to the car in about an hour, so I can look to see how this cable works.

Then a switch could be added to override the interlock if necessary (it would energize the relay and move the servo to the unlocked position).
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!: :!:

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Aerowhatt
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Re: Park locked until the charger is disconnected

Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:15 am

PV1 wrote:
Aerowhatt wrote:If one wanted to automate such a park lock it would be pretty straight forward to design and install a simple system that accomplished (NO READY > NO SHIFTY)

Aerowhatt

Source power from somewhere that is only energized when READY (power steering relay perhaps?), power a relay that drives a servo which locks/unlocks the brake pedal interlock cable. When READY, the relay is energized and moves the servo to unlock the cable and allow shifting from Park. When not READY, the relay is de-energized and the servo locks the cable. This would have to be a relay with both NC and NO outputs with a servo bi-directional drive circuit (NC moves servo to lock position, NO moves servo to unlock position). This servo could move a piece of metal that holds the brake pedal interlock cable in place (making it like you never actually press the brake pedal) when not READY, but when car becomes READY, the servo moves the metal tab and allows the cable to move, letting the car shift out of park. I'll be going out to the car in about an hour, so I can look to see how this cable works.

Then a switch could be added to override the interlock if necessary (it would energize the relay and move the servo to the unlocked position).


Seems like there are four or five different ways to do it. Some simpler than others. Your idea is reasonable but there is a simpler way (or two) to do it.

Aerowhatt
2014 cool silver ES, acquired new 4/2015 (42.7ah at ~26K miles)
2014 Labrador Black Pearl ES, acquired new 3/2016 (41.5ah at ~15k miles)

JoeS
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Re: Park locked until the charger is disconnected

Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:49 am

To take the vehicle out of Park, two conditions must be satisfied:
1. The brake must be depressed
2. The key must be turned

Is it all mechanical, as I thought the brake depression sent a signal which enabled shifter release?

If a brake signal is indeed presently required, then it would merely need to be ANDed with the Ready signal to produce the desired result.

I'm in the camp that does not view this as a significant problem, and certainly not one worthy of a recall.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
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PV1
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Re: Park locked until the charger is disconnected

Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:04 am

Yes, it's totally mechanical. There are two cables, one to the ignition switch, and the other to the brake pedal. While I haven't disassembled the unit to see how it functions, I've watched the brake pedal cable in action. There is a metal tab on the pedal that holds the cable and won't let it move towards the pedal (plastic plunger on the end of the cable). Even if you press the brake pedal which will move the metal tab out of the way, the cable from the key switch locks it. If the key is on and you press the brake, moving the shift lever across the gate results in the brake pedal cable moving towards the pedal (raising the plunger). This allows the car to be taken out of Park. However, if the brake pedal cable can't move (foot not pushing brake or my servo idea), the shifter can't move across the gate and the car can't be taken out of Park.

Perhaps someone could explain the inner workings of the shifter interlock better?

I don't believe it is worthy of a recall, either.
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!: :!:

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Don
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Re: Park locked until the charger is disconnected

Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:40 pm

On many current ICE cars, it's electrical, or electro-mechanical. My father-in-law complained to me one time that he had an off and on problem getting his car out of Park and into Reverse. He took it to the dealer and they took apart the console, fiddled with something or other, claimed it was fixed and charged him $150

A week or two later, it did the same thing. I Googled the problem and found the usual culprit for this problem is the brakelight switch. He watched his brakelights in the mirror of his garage door and sure enough - When the brakelights activated, the shifter would move, when they didn't, no go. I told him where to shove a credit card into the console to over ride the shifter lockout and he took it back to the dealer - New brakelight switch, no more problems. He could have (should have) done the fix himself and saved $140 of what they charged him . . . . but he doesn't own a computer! :lol:

If his car was a '57 Chevy or Ford he would never have had this problem

On my son's '03 Mazda, it's electro-mechanical. We changed the brakelight switch and it didn't fix it. 12 volts from the brakelight switch activates a little $2 solenoid in the console which moves a little nylon arm that allows you to take it out of Park. His is very intermittent, even with a new brakelight switch and lights that work 100% of the time - It will work 4 or 5 times in a row and then won't work the next time and when it doesn't work, there's no 12 volts at the solenoid. Our solution? A rubber band which holds the little nylon arm away so you can take it out of Park anytime you want to . . . . just like the '57 Chevy and Ford

Thanks, but no thanks to all these attempts at idiot-proofing something that was much more reliable before the government mandated that we had to look out for the 1/2 of 1 percent who can't do it for themselves

My opinion is . . . . we can try to idiot proof everything and eventually we'll wind up with $1K toasters and hairdryers which are much more prone to failure than before we put all these 'prevents' into them, or . . . . we can learn to properly operate whatever it is and quit blaming the factory for producing 'defective' products. Compare a 1960's push mower with what we have today as an example - 90% of what fails on them these days is all the rigamorole which is supposed to protect us from ourselves!!! As operators, we really have to screw up before we can find much to gripe about, but as always, there will be that 1/2 of 1 percent who need something different. Recalling a car for the 1/2 of 1 percent doesn't make a lick of sense :roll:

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

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