ul9601
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:22 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Hi a new guy here - some general questions

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:12 pm

Hi,
Looking into buying one and going to go and have a look at a couple this weekend - I've had a quick search but couldn't find it (I probably need to have a deeper look)
- Is there a easy way to identify the battery types, LEV50, LEV50N and SCiB? Most of the i-mievs here are grey imports. There are a few registered new here but not sure if they are Japanese import or other market cars (possibly Australian). I'm not sure if they were officially imported here.
- What are the differences between chassis code HA3W and HA4W - looks like the changeover occurred sometime in 2013 but unsure what changes are there.
- Apart from the batteries, what should I look out for in one?
Thanks in advance

JoeS
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Re: Hi a new guy here - some general questions

Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 am

Hi ul9601, I moved your question over to this i-MiEV Buying/Leasing subforum.

Even though it's for a North American i-MiEV, you might peruse this thread (which also references a UK/European thread on the same topic) which answer some of your questions:

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2435

I see that this five-year-old thread is now somewhat outdated, but there are many other pertinent discussions on this subforum. Vehicle rust may now be a significant consideration, depending on which part of the world one is in.

If I recall, the LEV50N was introduced in late 2012. I can't remember if anyone determined that we can identify what's inside a battery pack by looking at its external pack identifiers and where they are located.

Have no idea what the differences are between chassis codes, recognizing the the North American i-MiEV is longer and fatter than the ones sold in the rest of the world.

Wish you all the best in finding an i-MiEV in good condition.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

DBMandrake
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Re: Hi a new guy here - some general questions

Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:47 am

If you plug Canion into an Ion or C-Zero fitted with the later LEV50N cells you'll find the car only has 80 cells fitted instead of 88. (The two 4 cell modules were removed to reduce capacity to 14.5kWh!) So this can be used to determine if the car has LEV50N's for an Ion or C-Zero, unfortunately Canion cannot read the battery at all on cars newer than about 2015, for that you would need a Diagbox/Lexia 3 or MUT-III.

However all versions of the i-Miev have 88 cells so this trick cannot be used on an i-Miev. Other than that I'm afraid my answer is I dunno. I haven't seen anyone post public part numbers or other ways to identify cars with LEV50N cells from physical inspection, and first registered date might not be a good guide as some cars were manufactured quite a long time before being first registered.

Very unlikely you'll find any cars with SCiB batteries unless they are a 2nd hand grey market import direct from Japan, and you'll only find that in the i-Miev not the Ion or C-Zero as SCiB was only in the Japanese market and there were only i-Miev's available there.

The Wikipedia article claims that the SCiB (Lithium Titanate oxide) battery variants of the car had 1.7 x the range of the regular LEV50/LEV50N versions but I think this is incorrect! Lithium Titanate has a much higher cycle life and can be rapid charged much faster however it has considerably lower energy density. I believe the true capacity of the SCiB version of the car is only about 10kWh, and that this lower capacity was offset by the extremely quick rapid charging speeds in a Japanese domestic market that practically has a Chademo charger on every street corner it seems. :lol: (Seriously, check Japan on plugshare.com!)
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

ul9601
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:22 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Hi a new guy here - some general questions

Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:41 pm

Thanks guys.
Always tricky to figure out stuff about grey import - i'll go to a dealer to have a look at ex-japan import and another one (NZ New) later on today.
It seems like Mitsubishi NZ did sell through their network - again, there appeared to have been zero marketing and sticker price of just under NZ$60k, I don't think it would have been a success even with strong marketing.

ul9601
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:22 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Hi a new guy here - some general questions

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:44 am

Question - how does the range-o-meter with digital readout work? (The one to the right of the speedometer) Does it actually reflect the remaining battery capacity based on past usage or does it just read factory maximum of 160km (or whatever it is when the vehicle was new)
Also, how is it related to the half circle bar graph range-o-meter?
Under low speed city driving situation (i.e. where i-miev is most efficient), does the range-o-meter readout more or less correspond to the trip/odometer reading?
With the car I went to have a look at this evening, 2013 NZ new car, the owner seems to suggest it is good for 100-150 km depending on the type of journey - surely it can't be right for nearly 7 year old car?

kiev
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Re: Hi a new guy here - some general questions

Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:24 am

The half-moon gauge on the left is a 16-segment "fuel" gauge to let you know exactly how much energy is left in the "tank", i.e. the battery Pack.

The digital readout on the right has several optional displays selectable with the pushbutton. Odometer, trip meters A &B, dash light brightness setting, service reminder by miles and by months, estimated cruising Range Remaining based upon the usage rate of the previous xx? miles, and outside temperature.

Not really sure about how far the xx? previous miles covers, maybe 10 to15, it depends upon how hard you accelerate, how much climate control being used, etc. Use the RR for reference only, the fuel gauge is what matters--when you get down to 2 segments it starts blinking because when you hit E, you are empty. So it's time to be heading toward someplace to charge in the next 8 miles or so.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

JoeS
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Re: Hi a new guy here - some general questions

Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:51 am

The display on the right with the left-facing arrow under the numeric shows the Range Remaining (RR) in km (or miles). This simple, yet very useful, numeric is a range prediction based upon the vehicle's energy consumption over the preceding 24km (15 miles). That consumption is a moving average. RR gets decremented by roughly 20% if the heater is turned on, or about 10% if the aircon is turned on, and varies a bit with fan settings when those are active. Drive fast or into a headwind or do any significant hill climbing and RR drops precipitously, but go down a long mountain road and RR climbs inordinately. But you know that and can mentally adjust.

The gauge on the left is your "fuel gauge" and reflects the battery's present state of charge.

A 2013 i-MiEV may well contain LEV50N cella and, depending on mileage, could probably be driven 60+ miles with little effort (i.e., featherfoot and not much high speed). HOW you drive makes a HUGE difference in how far you can drive!

Edit: oops, see that kiev beat me to it in answering, but I see that our answers complement each other.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

ul9601
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:22 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Hi a new guy here - some general questions

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:59 pm

Hi guys,
Thanks for your answers - it seems that the owner has been very economy conscious driving this car (even to the extent of not using a/c - it's hot and humid summer here) - nothing wrong with it as that is the whole point of the car but that approach is not realistic to me, as the type of driving i'll be doing is vastly different. Of 30km daily return commute, 20km will be on the motorway at 100kph. On a bad day of traffic it might be around 10-15km at 100kph, the rest will be 50 kph tops.
And obviously I'll be running a/c for those motorway journey (or anytime I'm stuck in traffic crawling) on summer months.
I guess I'm rather unconvinced of 150km range of city driving is possible after 50,000km since it left the factory - the actual number means nothing as my driving circumstances will be vastly different but it gives the indication of remaining battery health.
I do wonder, if there have been attempts to get maximum mileage out of these things for the sake of "science" amongst the forum members.
Also, do you guys see premature wear on interior plastic trims? The driver's side arm rest has worn badly and the door handles aren't too flashy either.
Cheers,
Sam

JoeS
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Re: Hi a new guy here - some general questions

Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:30 pm

You ONLY have a 30km return commute??? That's nothing and easily handled by an i-MiEV, even if you travel at 130kphh for 15km on your motorway.

100kph is not a bad speed for the i-MiEV, giving you a range of about 75km if you were to drive at that speed continuously.
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=208&start=40#p17565

Once you start driving you will realize that you adjust your driving to meet your needed range and that most of the time it is a complete non-issue. I'm a leadfoot and only resort to hypermiling when I'm pushing the car's range limits on long trips; also, I very rarely fully charge my car, usually only putting in ~3/4 of a "tank" on a daily basis, and I drive the i-MiEV about 1000 miles/month.

Hypermiling really works and we have quite a number of threads on efficient driving in this subforum:
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=28
For example:
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=287

Hypermiling does not mean driving like a little-old-lady, as much of the time the cars around you don't even realize you are doing it; e.g., coasting in neutral down every little downhill without affecting speed.

a/c use has a minimal effect on range - you simply don't even notice the 10% reduction in range in normal everyday driving. I'm pretty sure we all use it to stay comfortable and the heck with range loss (unless you're really pushing the limits on a long trip).

Given 50,000km, what's the usual full-charge RR number the owner is claiming? 150km would be a stretch (but demonstratable) whereas I would expect a number around100km. I defy anyone to predict what that number will be exactly, as, I mentioned before, it simply reflects how the car was driven for the preceding 24km. I forgot to mention before that really cold weather also affects this number.

Regarding door armrests - depending on the model, Mitsubishi applied some sort of a coating which sometimes peels a little after a few years. These are daily beater working cars, so I just shrug that off. The rest of the car's interior is holding up very well, as evidenced by both of my 2012 i-MiEVs.

Does this car have CHAdeMO? I just looked at Auckland on PlugShare and you have loads of DCFC! Heck, you can now travel around your entire country easily in a BEV (although the west coast of the South Island still has some gaps) - next time I'm in NZ I'll rent an electric car, which is something I couldn't have done five years ago.

Anyhoo, any more comments you'd like to make about the car you saw? Don't suppose you found out what the build date was to confirm that the cells are LEV50N?
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

ul9601
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:22 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Hi a new guy here - some general questions

Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:32 am

Yeah ONLY 30km return commute - it's not much at all.
I've had a test drive in another i-miev, 2012 and again around 50,000km on the clock - this one being sold by a dealer. They said it does 70km range - I'd imagine the dealer and the potential customers would be driving with a bit more of lead foot. But then maybe it has something to do with it being a grey import, either the battery is SCiB or possibly subject to more fast charging back in Japan - will have to do some more research. The car is generally far tidier - as you'd expect from a dealer car.
The price wise, this is about NZ$1000 more expensive ~8%.

Going back to the private sale car I looked at yesterday - according to the paperwork, it was registered on March 2013 but no idea on its actual manufacturing date. It does have CHAdeMO but going long distance in this car is not really necessary as I have a second car, more suited to open road driving.

Anyway, while I was at the dealer, I sampled a Leaf, Gen I 2011 around 70,000km - at NZ$10000. I've been told it has the range of around 80km.
I've been in a Leaf as a passenger, driven a BMW i3 and a Renault Kangoo. i3 is the best by far, followed by Leaf then i-miev and Kangoo distant third and fourth. A Leaf pulls far stronger than i-miev, even up to 50kph. i-miev has a decent acceleration to 50kph but struggles to 100kph. It gets up there ok in the end but I guess I don't want it what seems like ages to get up there. It almost feels like the speedo is reading too slow on i-miev (or too high on Leaf) Leaf on the other hand, it gets up to 50 & 100 nice and quick but lack of strong regen is a downside. In that respect i3 has got both covered.
The other thing is relatively small number of i-mievs here, I'm looking at around 30 examples registered since 2010, and there are around 9 on local online auction site (mostly newly imported from Japan) but the number pales in comparison to Leaf. And when you factor in the price of Leaf which is sometimes actually lower than that of i-miev, it makes tough to go for i-miev. I do like i-miev for its compact size (Leaf will be a real squeeze in my garage), a wheel at each corner, good all around visibility and stonger regen.
I need to think about it pretty hard...

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