wmcbrine
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Re: Are the 2012 models getting too risky?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:22 am

MalcolmReynolds wrote:Does the i-Miev have the issues that the Leaf has had with cars in hot locations and battery life?

My understanding is that the i-MiEV has much better battery cooling than the Leaf, and consequently fewer problems of this nature. But I'm just going by forum comments.

MalcolmReynolds
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Re: Are the 2012 models getting too risky?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:22 am

Joe, That is a good question about the full warranty. I am emailing them now for clarification on that point. The carfax implies that the car hasn't been titled. So I will ask that question. If that is the case then I think this would be a great candidate and I will want to move quickly on that. If there isn't a warranty then I need to get the battery and health sorted out. Still waiting on a reply from for my previous questions.

UPDATE: The dealer replied that that the car was titled by them so the 3yr/36k and other coverage has already expired. Asking for a battery report and if they are LEV50 cells.

UPDATE 2: The sales rep has never heard of LEV50 cells and doesn't know what I am talking about. The manufacture date is 3/08/2012. He says he only has one i-Miev certified mechanic there who can getthe battery report. He is just trying to get some time with him to get me the battery info. So that is the hold up getting the info on the battery.

Don
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Re: Are the 2012 models getting too risky?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:47 am

*Usually* the car's warranty begins the day the car it titled and the dealer puts it into 'service' - I've bought used vehicles that the dealer didn't sell for a year or 18 months and then they titled them and began using them as 'demos' or 'service vehicles' and there's lots of the 3/36 warranty left because the car wasn't used when it was new for a year or more

It would be very unusual for a dealer to be able to insure and use a car without titleing it, but I suppose anything is possible. I would look into that a lot more . . . . who would insure a car without it being titled? . . . . and for 20,000 miles???

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

MalcolmReynolds
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Re: Are the 2012 models getting too risky?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:57 am

I don't understand the situation with the warranty since the car was never sold to a consumer and does not get reported to carfax like a normal transaction. I guess it doesn't matter, the dealer says the warranty is expired, and I just looked at the carfax again and it also says the warranty is expired. So they must have done something that started the warranty with Mitsubishi.

So I am treating it as a "used" car at this point and hoping the out the door price and the battery report are good. This car has the nav system so if it looks good I would ask them to make sure the maps and firmware are updated. I also just asked if all the recalls and service bulletins stuff has been done. Still waiting to hear back on those questions. It will depend on how many dealer fees and stuff they are tacking on.

The 2014 I am looking at the dealer has agreed to drop the dealer handling fees and all of that to get me out the door for the price listed online. So that is looking pretty good also. But the question is there $2k difference in value between a 2014 and a 2012? What do you guys think?

JoeS
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Re: Are the 2012 models getting too risky?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:31 pm

MalcolmReynolds wrote:...But the question is there $2k difference in value between a 2014 and a 2012? What do you guys think?
2012 SE with Nav (and thus CHAdeMO) and 20K miles vs. 2014 ('better'? cells) with 13K miles and CHAdeMO standard. I'd go with the 2014 for $2K more.

Unknown, is how the battery in each of these two vehicles was treated. Two years more of battery warranty on the 2014.

Shipping, registration/taxes in your state, and ancillary fees might alter the equation. Call up your insurance company and see what the premiums for each would be.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

wmcbrine
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Re: Are the 2012 models getting too risky?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:35 pm

MalcolmReynolds wrote:But the question is there $2k difference in value between a 2014 and a 2012? What do you guys think?

AFAIK they're the same year to year. It would be down to individual differences (CHAdeMO or not, Nav or not, mileage, etc.).

Don
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Re: Are the 2012 models getting too risky?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:38 pm

I agree - For $2K more and 7,000 fewer miles with 2 more years of battery warranty, I'd go with the 2014 too, no question. Which raises the question . . . . what's the 'magic number' where you prefer the 2012? $3500 maybe??

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

elekTrond
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Re: Are the 2012 models getting too risky?

Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:54 pm

phb10186 wrote:
elekTrond wrote:If NA/USDM market follows the same upgrade tempo as euro/JDM, then you should look for a mid-2012 and up - in order to receive the LEV50N cells. They are rated for 1,500 cycles vs. 500 or so cycles for the old one.


Is that quoted from official documentation? I'm not sure what cells my 2012 has (probably LEV50 though it it does appear to be a facelifted car Vs my parents '12 car - various differences to trim and controls, both front seats heated etc).

500 cycles seems very low for this type of cell - if charging daily, that would mean the pack is rated for about 2 years worth of 5-day weeks... and only about 500 x 80 miles: 40,000 miles tops (which may translate).

I was under the impression that the LEV50 cycle duty was in the order of 1500 cycles or so, which would effectively mean about 3 charges a week for 10 years.... but I really don't remember where I read that... though I only charge it once a week anyway mostly.

In addition, it's worth defining what cycle duty actually means, is that to 95% residual, less than that, or effective useful end?

Sorry for late answering. I had to look it up and refresh my memory. :? I was so wrong about the 1500 vs 500 cycles. And I hate wronging. :?

:arrow: LEV50N is supposed to last a whopping 5,500 cycles! LEV50N is our Lizard battery. According to fig. 9 in 009_01_026.pdf does N keep the same or better residual capacity after a thousand full cycles in 45°C, as the old one at a lukewarm 25°C.

About cycle duty:
From the top of my head, one full charging cycle takes a cell from 0% to 100%. You choose how to fulfill that cycle. Both 50->100% times two or 33->66% times three, are valid charging patterns as they add up to 100% SOC - or one full cycle of 100% DOD followed by a full, 100% charge.

Check out pushevs.com/2015/11/04/gs-yuasas-improved-cells-lev50-vs-lev50n
which in turn links to:

Since I could not find the origin of Pedro Lima@pushev's 5,500 cycle claim, I had to dig deeper. By searching for the rotten "datasheet-eng-295494.pdf", I found this french forum post:
Si c'est un vrai, je suis sur le cul!
Cycle de vie: 5500 à 80%
Durée de vie: 10 ans pour 1000 cycles
SIMPLEMENT HALLUCINANT !!!

Source: automobile-propre.com/forums/citroen-c-zero-peugeot-ion-mitsubishi-imiev/evolution-batteries-t4213.html
// elekTrond von Norwegen - '13 mjau (int.eng.: miaow, mew, meow) reg 9/2012 - 750W@48V->52V BBS02

elekTrond
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Re: Are the 2012 models getting too risky?

Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:29 pm

MalcolmReynolds wrote:[...]The entire pack has a specific energy of 80 Wh/kg.[25] [...]

Interesting how much the cradle weight drags down the energy density.

[...]and the specific energy is 109 Wh kg-1 and 99 Wh kg-1 for cell and battery module, respectively. [...]

Sauce: http://www.gs-yuasa.com/en/technic/vol5 ... _1_021.pdf

MalcolmReynolds wrote:UPDATE: The dealer replied that that the car was titled by them so the 3yr/36k and other coverage has already expired. Asking for a battery report and if they are LEV50 cells.

UPDATE 2: The sales rep has never heard of LEV50 cells and doesn't know what I am talking about. The manufacture date is 3/08/2012. He says he only has one i-Miev certified mechanic there who can getthe battery report. He is just trying to get some time with him to get me the battery info. So that is the hold up getting the info on the battery.


I thought NA USDM i's had first eight, and then ten years of warranty?

3/08 means March 8th., right? (Thats why I prefer the YYYY-MM-DD standard ... : ) At first I interpreted it to august and thought heey, LEV50N on board! According to this newsletter, you should probably skip that 2012 car. Is it a MY12 or MY13, btw? Does is have two heated seats? Black or brown upholstry? ACC/heating remote?

Does that 2014 model have LED headlamps like our euro-MiEV's got? And those pesky TPMS sensors?
// elekTrond von Norwegen - '13 mjau (int.eng.: miaow, mew, meow) reg 9/2012 - 750W@48V->52V BBS02

PV1
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Re: Are the 2012 models getting too risky?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:53 am

If you have the VIN, you can create an account on Mitsubishi's website and add that VIN to your "Garage". It will list warranties and service history.

Given the choice, I'd go with a 2014 model. Among other things, it's guaranteed to have the LEV50N cells and quick charging. I've also heard reports that the 2014 has slightly better build quality/fit and finish. It's definitely better equipped than even a 2012 SE Premium, with both front seats being heated (unless Bluetooth/Nav is a big deal for you).

As for warranty, US I-MiEVs originally shipped with 3-year/36,000 mile "new vehicle warranty" (basically, the whole car), 5-year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty, and 8-year/100,000 mile battery warranty (covers failures, not degradation). However, in 2015, many if not all US owners received letters stating the battery warranty was bumped up to 10-years/100,000 miles. It's not very clear if this covers all US I-MiEVs or 2012 models only.
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