Hot Dogging with an iMiev (Operating Cost)

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RapidRick

Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
7
Location
Bowling Green, KY
Greetings!

My name is Rick, I live here Bowling Green, KY. I wanted to post and introduce myself, and what I might have in mind regarding the purchase and use of an iMiev. As this project progresses, I will try to post updates and questions on this thread, maybe pics, as others may also want to purchase an iMiev solely for business use.

For the past month or so I have been lurking here on the forums, investing many hours doing my due diligence. I own and operate a small hot dog cart business here in town at a variety of locations working the lunch crowd, the late night crowd, and the summer tourists. My commute each day is roughly 8 miles each way if I take the interstate, or 6 miles if I drive through the city. At worst, I would be taking two trips a day into town, with several hours in between for charging.

The actual equipment I use in also pretty minimal. The cart itself weighs 200-250 pounds and the additional coolers, tables, signage and other junk I carry around weighs another couple hundred pounds, at most. I am upgrading to a new cart that will weigh more later in the year, around 400 pounds, but I still would be towing a relatively light load.

I do have some concerns about how much the aerodynamics of towing the cart will impact my range. The cart is a basically like towing a parachute, it is a big, horizontal sheet of metal and this concerns me somewhat.

Most of the big questions that I have are not necessary centered around the viability of the technology or if the car can do the job, but the financial impact of using the car. I currently own a '13 base model Honda Insight that is already extremely efficient to operate and costs me about 20 cents a mile to drive. If I'm going to buy an iMiev and figure to get eight years of useful life out of it, I really need to at least equal, if not improve upon, that 20 cent number to justify my purchase. In fact I don't even care to pay a bit more, due to the convenience of having a dedicated hot dog car and the ability to make use of the car for branding and marketing purposes.

Unfortunately, I'm finding the math on an EV a little less straight forward than on an ICE car. I'm using 8 years of life, 6000 miles a year and a 6000 purchase price as my benchmarks. That puts me at 12 cents a mile for the car. Another 1000 for a tow hitch and some swag to dress up the car. What should I estimate insurance costs to be? Registration costs? Maintenance costs? Electric use costs?

Can any of you veterans take a guess at what kind of costs I might guesstimate at to use in my figures?

Also, any concerns about the viability of this idea?

Thanks- Rapid Rick
 
RapidRick said:
...I'm finding the math on an EV a little less straight forward than on an ICE car. I'm using 8 years of life, 6000 miles a year and a 6000 purchase price as my benchmarks. That puts me at 12 cents a mile for the car. Another 1000 for a tow hitch and some swag to dress up the car. What should I estimate insurance costs to be? Registration costs? Maintenance costs? Electric use costs?
Can any of you veterans take a guess at what kind of costs I might guesstimate at to use in my figures?
Also, any concerns about the viability of this idea?...
Rick, would you mind sharing what the cost components are for your existing Honda, and what level of insurance you intend to carry?

My insurance bill (Allstate) for each of my almost identical i-MiEVs is sitting on my desk:
$1001/year liability and collision ($500 deductible) and comprehensive ($100 deductible) Plain SE no CHAdeMO
$588/year liability and comprehensive ($100 deductible) SE Premium
$276/year liability and comprehensive ($100 deductible) SE Premium
The bill does not take into account a major re-alignment of mileage that my local agent and I had carefully worked out and I see the fine print says it is based on last year's mileage... grrrrr.... another trip to her office.
Don't forget, this is the San Francisco Bay Area and I'm told rates are high here.

Registration costs vary by State and may also reflect how much you paid for the car in addition to a fixed fee. Does Kentucky offer a zero-emissions vehicle break?

Maintenance cost:
Figure $600 for a set of tires every 25,000 miles.
$20/year for windshield wipers, washer fluid, cabin air filter, Windex, and some paper towels...

Electricity Cost:
If you don't have Solar and you'll be towing a trailer (but not fast) then figure 3.5 miles/kWh (my guess). Take 6000miles and divide by 3.5 to get the number of kWh and then multiply that by your electricity cost ($/kWh).

Tow hitch will be less than $500, installed, if you don't want to save around $250 doing it yourself.

As mentioned in your other post - Go For It!
 
Look into filing schedule C with your income taxes and write the whole thing off.

You get to deduct all expenses of doing business, actual automobile expenses or a mileage allowance of ? 56¢/mile, lease payments, legal expenses, uniforms, advertising, interest payments, insurance premiums, etc...

the more you spend, the more you write off--then just donate all profits to charity (after reasonable salary for the boss), and uncle sam will be sending you money.
 
JoeS said:
Rick, would you mind sharing what the cost components are for your existing Honda, and what level of insurance you intend to carry?

I figure the Honda at 20,000 miles a year and 10 years of driving life.

The car cost exactly 20,017 dollars new, including all finance costs, tax, title, etc. 10 cents a mile figuring a car worth zero in 200,000 miles.

Gas, currently about 3.5 cents a mile.

Insurance currently costs me 405.00 every six months. That with high coverage amounts but also with 1,000 deductible. That is with both comprehensive and collision. As the car loses book value I'll eventually remove the collision insurance. I figure over ten years I'll spend 6K on insurance over 10 years, figure 3 cents a mile.

Registration runs about another penny a mile. Another thing that goes down as the car loses value.

I figure my maintenance costs at 2.5 cents a mile, but that is a wild guess. That is 5,000 dollars over ten years. So far the car has 47k miles and has performed flawlessly.
 
kiev said:
Look into filing schedule C with your income taxes and write the whole thing off.

You get to deduct all expenses of doing business, actual automobile expenses or a mileage allowance of ? 56¢/mile, lease payments, legal expenses, uniforms, advertising, interest payments, insurance premiums, etc...

the more you spend, the more you write off--then just donate all profits to charity (after reasonable salary for the boss), and uncle sam will be sending you money.

Yes I already have an ace accountant that does all that stuff. It works out that using the mileage allowance is a much better deal for me than using the actual automobile expenses.
 
JoeS said:
Maintenance cost:
Figure $600 for a set of tires every 25,000 miles.

That is amazingly high. For my purposes, since I will be driving a very limited number of miles each day, couldn't I do away with the low rolling resistance tires and save some money?
 
RapidRick said:
JoeS said:
Maintenance cost:
Figure $600 for a set of tires every 25,000 miles.

That is amazingly high. For my purposes, since I will be driving a very limited number of miles each day, couldn't I do away with the low rolling resistance tires and save some money?
If you're driving a very limited number of miles a day, then it will take you a long time to get to 25,000 miles, so why even worry about it?
 
wmcbrine said:
RapidRick said:
JoeS said:
Maintenance cost:
Figure $600 for a set of tires every 25,000 miles.

That is amazingly high. For my purposes, since I will be driving a very limited number of miles each day, couldn't I do away with the low rolling resistance tires and save some money?
If you're driving a very limited number of miles a day, then it will take you a long time to get to 25,000 miles, so why even worry about it?

I still want to figure it into my total cost. If I get 50,000 miles out of the car over eight years, that's still two sets of expensive tires. It is that kind of information that I was looking for when posting in the first place.
 
RapidRick, beware of Paralysis through Analysis.

For your purposes, a first-order approximation is "good enough", and you already have enough data to do that.

You didn't blink when I showed you the ridiculously-low $20/year maintenance cost.

You didn't blink when I showed you the ridiculously-low fuel cost, if you completed the math.

You didn't blink when I showed you the 3:1 variability in insurance cost.

Did you complete the Registration Fee estimate?

You went ballistic over a projected $600 tire replacement. Fine, assume $500 and drive slower to extend the life of the tires to 30K or 35K miles. If it's that close to a go/no-go decision, you have other problems.

If you're trying to rationalize buying another car in addition to your existing 2013 Honda Insight (that was expensive, wasn't it?) for your existing business, you won't get there from here as spending $6000, especially on a depreciable asset, won't do it. Now, if you were currently driving a 2013 F350, ...

If you're trying to expand your business and have a second Hot Dog cart and you need a vehicle for that, there is no cheaper EV option out there; for that matter, there is no cheaper vehicle out there with a lower recurring cost unless you want to use a bicycle or try a motorcycle. You might find a reliable $500 car which would justify your math, but might turn off your customers unless you spray paint it psychedelically.

Do take note of kiev's comments, as it may well negate what I've just written.

My suggestion? Save your hard-earned $6000, don't buy an i-MiEV or any other car, and try to figure out if expanding your existing business is a viable option for whatever goals you have set for yourself.

Wishing you all the best.

Edit: PS You might want to consider how the i-MiEV's ten-year battery warranty fits into your equation.
 
JoeS said:
RapidRick, beware of Paralysis through Analysis.

You went ballistic over a projected $600 tire replacement. Fine, assume $500 and drive slower to extend the life of the tires to 30K or 35K miles. If it's that close to a go/no-go decision, you have other problems.

My suggestion? Save your hard-earned $6000, don't buy an i-MiEV or any other car, and try to figure out if expanding your existing business is a viable option for whatever goals you have set for yourself.

Wishing you all the best.

Good thoughts Joe. I've only posted a few times and you already have me pegged. :D I over analyze financial decisions quite a bit, especially when they involve four digits. I made poor financial decisions in my younger days and don't wish to repeat that experience. I spent months and months reading about hybrids and EV's before buying the Insight a few years ago, and have become quite an enthusiast of EVs. I don't NEED an EV but I want and EV and can easily afford it, I'm just trying to do all my homework. I can live with $600 tires every four years or so (Although it still seems counterintuitive to design a car with such low running costs and put such expensive tires on it).

My business is already in the position where Im honestly don't want to expand much more. I like being a one-person business and am not looking to grow it into a multiple cart business. Employees equal headaches. Ive worked hard at achieving goals, becoming debt free, saving for retirement and kids college. This modest EV is a goal, but it also would also be a useful tool for business.
 
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