Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2956
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Cost to drive a car

Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:37 pm

AAA says it now costs $9K per year to drive a car and get this . . . . they say maintenance costs are the single biggest expense - Above the cost of insurance, gas or even depreciation

http://t.autos.msn.com/news/aaa-driving ... r9k-a-year

I knew we were saving a bunch on gas . . . . but it appears our 'maintenance friendly' little gem is saving us even more than we knew!

Golly, I feel like I oughta run right out to the garage and change the oil just so she knows how much I appreciate her :lol:

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, Raspberry Metallic
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon

Llecentaur
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:56 am

Re: Cost to drive a car

Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:00 pm

Today I got my Audi A5 convertible out of its winter break. back from the shop I Paid 350 for small service including oil change and 100 Swiss franc for Diesel.

That is when it daunt on me how many kilometers I can drive with the i using ~450 USD of electricity !

Don't do the math, here is a multiple choice, lets see who gets it right intuitively :

A) about 5000 km / 3000 miles
B) more than 10000 km / 6000 miles
C) more than 20000 km /12000 miles

MatimalND
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:20 am

Re: Cost to drive a car

Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:21 pm

b at .12 cents a kwh
2012 Nissan Leaf SL
Wanted-> 2012 iMiEV

aarond12
Posts: 388
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:21 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: Cost to drive a car

Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:39 pm

I would also say "B", since I calculated my estimated yearly electricity costs at just under $500.
2015 Nissan LEAF S

acensor
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Cost to drive a car

Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:42 am

OK, 'tis true that maintenance costs on an ICE can be very significant.

I love our new MiEV, but still come out with an analysis that economically over the next 10 years we'd likely come out lower cost per mile keeping our fully paid for 2005 low miles (80,000 on it) Toyota Corolla. That is, unless gasoline -- "petrol" for our UK cousins ;) -- goes up to about $7 per gallon OR replacement battery costs go dramatically down from current official Mitsu pricing.
And remember we each had a big upfront investment of a bundle of cash (the price difference between buying, say, a base model Honda Fit or Nissan Versa new and a new MiEV -- let alone a costly Leaf, that rightly should be spread forward as part of out cost per mile.

I used a base model Honda Fit or Nissan Versa as in my view they are comparable in size, arguably possibly even richer in features, certainly have more power and of course better range than a MiEV or a LEAF.
I seriously doubt AAA's figure of 4.97 cents per mile on average for maintenance costs on an ICE is realistic for any of us here (I bet many of us are "change my own oil and spark plugs, and don't take the ICE in to the dealer and pay them $300 for some arbitrary "official 30,000 mile service.)
I know I've not spent anywhere close to that on the 2004 Toyota we just gave to our grandson, or even on our 2001 Subaru Forester. And watch out for their word "average."
In the preface to my statistics text book in college it said something like this:
"When using the techniques of statistical analysis, always remember the story of the statistician who drowned attempting to wade across a creek that had an average depth of only 10 centimeters." ;)

Problem with the miles per kilowatt hour cost analysis without adding our hidden elephant-in-the-room uncertain large lump sum maintenance cost (the "someday either battery replacement cost of huge depreciation hit on selling a 10 year old car with maybe only 40-mile range with by-then-obsolete-battery technology") may be kidding ourselves.

So IMO in truth we can't know our cost to drive our Eva’s per mile or kilometer is or how it compares to owning a "comparable" ICE until we see what future costs of gasoline are (and to a less extent future costs of electricity which will go up) and battery replacement costs/depreciation.

That all said, I have several factors that counter my less than optimistic analysis of this:
# It’s FUN to drive.
# It’s voting with our dollars for a better way of doing things than ICE transport
# It does reduce our dependence on overseas oil.
# It is likely on net somewhat reducing global warming.
# Because we have 30 solar panels our EV is even a bit closer to true zero emission and we’re protected against rises in costs of electricity.
# I feel like I’ve so-to-speak “purchased insurance against having to deal with $8/gallon prices showing up at the pumps in the next decade.”
# I feel like I’ve purchased insurance against dealing with long long lines or rationing at the gas pumps in the next decade or two.
(I don’t consider these last two unlikely possibilities. Nor, if either happens the reality that at that time prices of EVs would shoot up dramatically and there would be huge waiting lists of buyers.)

Alex
Alex
{this message posted with 100% post consumer recycled electrons}
SE 2012 white with blue trim, powered by PV (~65%)
2015 Subaru Forester CVT
Two Trek street/trail bicycles optimized for mild around town use

Llecentaur
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:56 am

Re: Cost to drive a car

Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:08 am

Ok, I get to C).

Please correct me if my math or data are inaccurate.

I used the estimates of Swiss Touring club TCS which had given a cost of ~2USD for 100 km.

Then 450USD would give 450x100 then divided by 2, which is roughly 20'000 km.

I fully agree with Alex's remark on the unknown battery replacement cost. I am not planning at selling this car before a very long time, therefore I even made a rust proofing treatment with Waxoyl to aim at a very long term ownership even if it role might be to take the garbage to the recycling plant or transport the plants for the garden... Even with a short 40 mile range, it is likely to be an interesting alternative.

Actually my wife got a shock when I said that the iMiev could be our last car :twisted:

JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3843
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Silicon Valley, California

Re: Cost to drive a car

Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:41 pm

I ran across this blurb, which links to the original article:

Study Finds E-Drive Cars Less Expensive to Own Than ICE-Age Models By Next Decade

What struck my funnybone is the choice of words: "ICE Age" :lol:

(ICE = Infernal Combustion Engine)

Hey, I think electric cars are less expensive NOW! Especially with Mitsu's $10K rebate, we need less time to amortize our lovely iMiEV. Dang, I can rationalize the amortization of my 6.6kW solar PV using the car and rationalize the car using my solar PV. Wow, my pockets are bulging... :mrgreen:

I'm slated to be on a panel for an Electric Vehicle discussion at a public meeting hosted by a local green organization next month. Can't wait to use that phrase. :P
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

acensor
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Cost to drive a car

Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:36 am

JoeS wrote:I ran across this blurb, which links to the original article:

Study Finds E-Drive Cars Less Expensive to Own Than ICE-Age Models By Next Decade

:P



Hi Joe!

Hey, when I clicked on the hyperlink you provided it does take me to
http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=30879
And the header of that site's page is there.
But where I expect to see the article is just blank white.

Does that hyperlink work for anyone?

Same thing happened when I googled the phrase
E-Drive Cars Less Expensive to Own Than ICE-Age Models By Next Decade .

Got several different hits, all of which ultimately took me to what looks like the same not properly loading or defective page.
Alex

Note added here using this forum's "edit" feature:
Tried browsing there using Google Chrome for a browser instead of Internet Explorer 10,
and am able to read the article. Obviously issue is between the site and my IE, not the URL or the site as such.
Alex
{this message posted with 100% post consumer recycled electrons}
SE 2012 white with blue trim, powered by PV (~65%)
2015 Subaru Forester CVT
Two Trek street/trail bicycles optimized for mild around town use

Mart
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Midtown, Jackson, Mississippi

Re: Anyone thinking of purchasing the new/improved 2014's?

Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:18 am

PV1 wrote:Either people have a false impression on how much electricity an EV uses, or don't realize how much energy their house uses.


I've taught a few classes on sustainability in the home. Most people don't know what a kWh is, how much it costs, or how many they use. They just pay the dollar amount, and wonder why it's so high this month.... :cry:

Most people don't believe spending more up front can save them big money over the life-cycle. I had one class for fifth graders, heavily attended by their parents. I had been asked to show the kids why CFLs were better than incandescent bulbs. Of course I showed them the life-cycle costs of a house full of incandescents vs. CFLs vs. LEDs for a mortgage period. I then asked how many of them wanted to get a driver's license as soon as they were able. Every hand shot up. I then repeated the exercise with a $17k ICE car getting 25mpg, a $24k hybrid getting 50 mpg, or a $30k BEV getting 100 mpge. The kids looked at historic trends and decided the average price of gasoline for the next 10 years would be $5/gal and electricity would be $0.12/kWh. Using averages of 15,000 miles per year and 10 year ownership costs, we did a quick cost analysis (easy math since the mpg estimates double with each step upward though I pointed out the cost difference at 100 mpg vs. 100 mpge). The parents gasped when they heard how many kWh were required, but were shocked when they found out how much less it would cost. I then pointed out how they currently pay below the national average for electricity, and that electric car prices were continuing to drop. I got more questions from the parents than the kids.

We'll have to wait and see if their guess for fuel and electricity costs is valid or not.

BarryP
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:30 pm
Location: Idaho Falls

Re: Anyone thinking of purchasing the new/improved 2014's?

Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:26 pm

Mart wrote: The parents gasped when they heard how many kWh were required, but were shocked when they found out how much less it would cost...



This is great advertising Mart! I think more people would buy if they understood this concept. Even the mpge is deceptive. It’s hard to get the true picture. In small print on the window sticker under the mpge it says “30kwhr/100 mi”. That’s the number to work with. That’s the worst case cost (for me) that I like to play games with.

Recently a co-worker came up to me and noticed my weird looking car. He asked “What kind of mileage do you get from that?” In order to get his attention I said “Let me think. I am getting about 176 mpg today”. Of course that shocked him. I then had to explain it’s fully electric; and no- there’s no gas engine; no- there’s no gas; nada. It’s all electric. To put it in perspective I asked “What does your truck get”. He said 15mpg. I said “For $3.30 you can travel 15 miles. Well for that same $3.30, I can travel 176 miles. So I must be getting 176 mpg”

This is what’s going on in my calculator: 0.3KWhr/mile at $0.0625/kWHr in Idaho Falls; thus 1.875¢/mile worst case driving my electric car. I actually get closer to 1.5¢/mile. Note: no matter what their mileage is, I’ll always get 176/mpg. That’s why it’s fun to ask them their gas mileage (it means nothing but a comparison). My formula is (price of gas/gal) ÷ (0.3kWhr/mil) ÷ (Utility rate in kWhr) = (a fun perspective of mpg). So as the cost of gas goes up, I get ‘better’ mpg!

Have fun teaching!
-Barry
Bought iMiev June 6, 2013, Now leaving electrons in my wake @ ~1000miles/month
Original owner Prius 2002 275,000+ miles
Original owner Prius 2009 125,000+ miles

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