Llecentaur
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Re: How to fix under steer

Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:51 am

Lateral thinking.

Don, you explained in one of the earlier posts of this topic that the back wheel mounted in front would stick out.

Given all the trouble we are having in sourcing other wheels, why not search for a way to widen the fenders to cover the wheels ?

I am assuming that the wheels will not touch when the suspension is working ?

Also the wider front should bring an even bigger gain in stability in corners and allow us to use Low roll res tyres like the ones at the back.

Then it would be a matter of finding a body-fender part that would do the job, I think I have seen these in customised cars? Then protecting the under body front stones should be feasible with these small flaps ...

What do you guys think ?

Thanks

Don
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Re: How to fix under steer

Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:33 pm

Llecentaur wrote:Lateral thinking.

What do you guys think ?
The front end steering geometry was designed around the factory track width - When you turn the wheels, the inside wheel turns a sharper angle than the outside wheel does and the difference in those two angles is a function of track width - Change the offset of the front wheels and now you have a new, wider front end track width, so that steering angle geometry would no longer be correct - The tires would be scrubbing on any tight turn . . . . and there is no adjustment to correct for that

Not to mention that doing bodywork to cover for an incorrect set of wheels isn't something anyone would even consider doing . . . . the car would not only be funny handling - It would be funny looking too

Messing with such things in an attempt to 'correct' for a handling problem could generate bigger problems than the ones you're trying to fix

Don
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Llecentaur
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Re: How to fix under steer

Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:11 pm

Thank you Don.

I understand the concept of the two different circles between left and right wheels.

Just out of curiosity and my understanding, then all theses people adding spacers, de facto widening the front track would then be creating this problem you described ?

Don
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Re: How to fix under steer

Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:31 am

Llecentaur wrote:Thank you Don.

I understand the concept of the two different circles between left and right wheels.

Just out of curiosity and my understanding, then all theses people adding spacers, de facto widening the front track would then be creating this problem you described ?
Exactly!!

Here in the south we see so many of the good ole boy redneck pick-ups running around with an extra FOOT or so of track width - I understand very well why they're doing good to get 5,000 miles from a set of tires . . . . but I'm still amazed that they can turn a corner without tipping over . . . . well, they can do it most of the time anyway :lol:

From time spent in Europe, I know this is something you never see - All vehicles there must pass a very strict annual inspection and modifications to the factory track width is an automatic fail

Don
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alohart
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Re: How to fix under steer

Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:27 am

I think solving the i-MiEV's wheel/tire "problem" is more important than just improving its handling. Especially in North America, being able to find replacement LRR tires will likely become (is already?) very difficult. Tire Rack already lists the OEM tires as back-ordered with no availability date. I doubt that there is or likely will be any other car sold in North America that uses a 145/65R15 tire, and with so few i-MiEV's sold, will the OEM tire manufacturer continue to make these tires? Even my very light (<1,900 lb.) Honda Insight uses 165/65R14 tires. The Smart ForTwo Electric uses 155/60R15 LRR tires on all wheels even though its electric motor is more powerful. However, it is about 500 lb. lighter than an i-MiEV, so maybe these tires are a bit too small to be used on the rear.
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Antaris
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Re: How to fix under steer

Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:54 pm

I just pulled the hub caps and had a look at the wheels. The inner sections of front and rear wheels are different . The rear wheel inner I don't believe will fit on the front because the front wheel inner is made to fit over the disk brake calipers. The rear inner would probably hit the calipers on the front. Aftermarket wheels may be designed to fit both front and rear. I will contact a Mitsubishi parts dealership and see if the stock wheels are available (probably not)
but worth a try. It looks like the inner wheels are swappable with the opposing front/rear outer. Inners are stitch welded to outers so not a big deal to cut the welds and re-weld the combination of choice.

Don
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Re: How to fix under steer

Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:54 am

The front hubs have a pressed in aluminum 'collar' which prevents the rear wheels from fitting on the front, but if you pull that collar off, they will bolt on the front and work OK . . . . assuming the rear tire isn't too big to clear the fenderwells. Even a 14 inch wheel that I tried easily clears the brake calipers

There is one hole drilled in that collar - If you drill another directly opposite it, you can stick a screwdriver through both holes and pry the collars off easily - Reinstalling them is as simple as tapping them back on with a hammer

I'm pretty sure those collars would have to be removed to fit ANY aftermarket wheel

Don
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yellowwaterdog
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Re: How to fix under steer

Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:09 pm

If you think i-MiEV understeers -- the ICE i-car pushes worse than a dump truck. It makes i-MiEV seem like a sports car!! But they race ICE i-cars in Japan so aftermarket products are available for EUR and J-spec i-MiEVs.....

Does anyone know about larger sway bars for NA i-MiEV? The EUR and J-spec i-MiEVs are more stiffly sprung and sway less -- but their bars won't fit.

also, a little driving skill goes a long way with skinny tires....
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jray3
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Re: How to fix under steer

Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:00 pm

yellowwaterdog wrote:But they race ICE i-cars in Japan so aftermarket products are available for EUR and J-spec i-MiEVs.....
Does anyone know about larger sway bars for NA i-MiEV? The EUR and J-spec i-MiEVs are more stiffly sprung and sway less -- but their bars won't fit.

Please post any links to those JDM suppliers. Their pricing is usually very high, but perhaps a group buy...

Also, I know that it's a sin to weld spring steel (though not so bad if oil-quenched), but a J-Spec sway bar could be cut and widened with a sleeve rather than welded butt joints. Anyway, identifying the supplier would be the first step in convincing them to offer an NA-spec sway bar. There's already one supplier in Germany offering lowering springs, but they didn't respond to my email. Now I see one in the UK, at a hair under $200/set (before shipping)
http://www.spring-loaded.co.uk/proddeta ... 1%3AHANDR1
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Llecentaur
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Re: How to fix under steer

Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Not sure it is a good idea to lower the i because of the increased risk to hit the battery pack to some protuberance in the road.

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