Clipper Creek EVSE

Mitsubishi i-MiEV Forum

Help Support Mitsubishi i-MiEV Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

derminghsieh

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
21
Location
Bellevue, Washington
I just got a letter from Mitsubishi with "Important Notice Enclosed". And it made me really angry. In this letter, Mitsubishi is apologizing to the users of Clipper Creek EVSE and working out a software solution that is going to be implemented starting from January, 2013. Why is Cipper Creek getting such a courtesy letter and my EVSEUPGRADE is treated with threat (Mitsubishi’s way or high way) when both EVSEs are complying to the common standards of communication like Don pointed out not long ago. I despise Mitsubishi.
 
derminghsieh, perhaps you're being a little harsh on Mitsu at this point in time, especially since it looks like they're working the problem. I haven't received such a notice from Mitsubishi (yet?) and I hope they're addressing the apparent incompatibility between the Remote and non-Mitsu EVSEs (and not just Clipper Creek). I understand your frustration with them pointing fingers at your EVSEUPGRADEd unit, but perhaps it was just the local dealer's service people talking...
 
Has ingineer (the upgrader of the EVSE) or anybody else
determined what is different between the original EVSE
and the same EVSE, when upgraded, but used in L1 mode?

When charging at public charging stations has anybody
compiled a list of those EVSEs that work Always, Never,
and Sometimes?

Is the work-around to just not use the Remote?

When is the Remote "required"?

If the Remote is not used, does the iMiEV charge
reliability with all EVSEs?

Does the ion have the same problem?
 
I've used the remote exactly one time in 6,000 miles - To precool the car when we had a big wedding cake sitting in the back. Yes, you can reliably charge the car with any EVSE you like . . . . so long as you aren't using the remote

The remote can be used to either preheat or precoool the car for 30 minutes so long as it's connected to the EVSE for power. It can also be used to set the charger ON/OFF times, like you would want to do if your electric rate goes down at a certain hour so you can charge overnight using the cheaper rates. I doubt it gets used much at public charging stations

Other than that, it doesn't do much . . . . Oh, you can check the rough state of charge without going out to look at the 'gas gauge' in the car, but I suspect most of us don't use the remote too often - Certainly the cold weather guys are probably using it to preheat in these cold temps

It's certainly nothing like you would expect from a BlueTooth cel phone app . . . . .

I'm just guessing that the car is set up to recognize the pilot signal specific to an 8 amp L1 or a 16 amp L2 charger and any EVSE which doesn't give exactly that pilot shows an error on the remote . . . . just a guess mind you. I'd bet now that Mitsu is aware that this issue is ticking off a number of owners, this will be corrected in the next software upgrade

One of the things I really LIKE about this car is that most of the functions can be greatly modified just by making software changes - When tech guys like you figure out how to do that, the car will be readily (and cheaply) customizable

Don
 
If someone were to wire a "hidden" extra OBD connector up inside
the car, connect an OBD Logging device, and log with a hidden
laptop while the car is being serviced for a firmware update,
then "somebody" MIGHT be able to learn how the updates are
accomplished, if they only use the CAN bus.

One probably only needs 3 wires, Ground, CAN-Hi, and CAN-Low
(unless it is a Bluetooth device, then it would also need the 12v
Power wire) .

Of course, there might be non-obvious risks, most people
would not want to be so "sneaky", and the logged data might
be too difficult to decode, or even insufficient to learn much.

So, this is NOT a suggestion, but only a "thought experiment".
 
garygid said:
...

Is the work-around to just not use the Remote?

When is the Remote "required"?

If the Remote is not used, does the iMiEV charge
reliability with all EVSEs?

Does the ion have the same problem?

I feel for those that can't use the remote because it is such a great feature. Its nice to know that Mitsubishi is willing to look at some of the EVSEs that are having a problem. The remote is never required, as I know the C-Zero doesn't come equipped with one, and I believe the same goes for the iOn but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Can't blame Mitsubishi for not wanting to work with a tampered EVSE. I don't know of any electronics that you can tamper with and expect a warranty claim for.
 
Nobody is asking (or expecting) Mitsu to stand behind an OEM EVSE which has been modified

What I think we have a right to expect is . . . . that if the customer us using any EVSE which is 100% compliant with the J1772 standard, then the car should recognize that and function as advertised

Giving us a built-in 'hiccup' in the cars software so it only works properly with this or that brand of EVSE just isn't acceptable - I know everyone is tired of hearing my anology, but this is exactly the same as if an ICE vehicle manufacturer built a car which would only operate on Chevron gas . . . . because they had some sweetheart deal with Chevron

Don
 
Guess I'll come and join the fun. We have ordered an EVSE for the Opel Ampera (Chevy Volt). Our original Panasonic will charge from 230V 16A. The other one will do 230V and either 10A or 6A. Originally they could do 8A and 13A as well but 16A and may be even 13A is too much for our Schuko Plugs. I do know the Ampera EVSE did have some issues with unstable mains.

I just come from hearing some strange noises form our Panasonic EVSE. Connecting or disconnecting power I usually hear relays clicking that sounds as if electrons were swimming in a big bath tube and I was moving the bath tube. Today I switched the light on. We have 3 phases, 3 circuits each with its own fuse, downstairs, one for the lights, one for the washing mashine and one for the i-MiEV. (for the dryer actually)

Looks like the Panasonic EVSE did pick up RFI from the transformers of the discharge lamp.

Prices are 2000 Euros for the Panasonic or 333 Euros for the Opel Ampera EVSE and I need some spare parts for building my own "notEVSE".
 
derminghsieh, perhaps you're being a little harsh on Mitsu at this point in time, especially since it looks like they're working the problem. I haven't received such a notice from Mitsubishi (yet?) and I hope they're addressing the apparent incompatibility between the Remote and non-Mitsu EVSEs (and not just Clipper Creek). I understand your frustration with them pointing fingers at your EVSEUPGRADEd unit, but perhaps it was just the local dealer's service people talking...

I admit that I am a little harsh on Mitsubishi. I should have looked at the bright side of the letter and I hope Joe is right. At least, Mitsubishi is working on a solution for an EVSE that is not on its list of approval. The mechanics at the dealers were nice and they simply followed the instructions from the engineers at the Mitsubishi's headquarter. However, this fix has nothing to do with the remote. Let me copy part of the letter:

Currently, use of a Clipper Creek charger could potentially damage the internal components within your i-MiEV electrical system. If this damage occurs, it could potentially affect your i-MiEV's ability to start...... Mitsubishi recommends if you use Clipper Creek Chargers; please remove the charging connector from the vehicle as soon as the energy level gauge indicates the battery is fully charged. This will minimize the possibility of damage to internal components within your-i-MiEV electrical system.

I believe you are going to receive this letter very soon.
 
Don said:
Nobody is asking (or expecting) Mitsu to stand behind an OEM EVSE which has been modified

What I think we have a right to expect is . . . . that if the customer us using any EVSE which is 100% compliant with the J1772 standard, then the car should recognize that and function as advertised

Giving us a built-in 'hiccup' in the cars software so it only works properly with this or that brand of EVSE just isn't acceptable - I know everyone is tired of hearing my anology, but this is exactly the same as if an ICE vehicle manufacturer built a car which would only operate on Chevron gas . . . . because they had some sweetheart deal with Chevron

Don

Thats a separate issue, the OP complained about Mitsubishi technicians poo-poo'ing his modified EVSE. That's a given, I wouldn't have said anything to them about it because the technicians are going to suspect that right away.

This problem is very different from gasoline, its a software/hardware compatability problem. Petrolium companies can put all kinds of twists on the gasoline standard by putting additives into the fuel, but your car will still run. Software is very different, depending on how its coded - the software may be expecting only one value not a range of values, its all in the keystroke (x = 1 or x >= 1 && x <=5).

From reading all of the documents on the Open EVSE site, I know I came across something that said the J1772 is a standard but not all companies follow it to the letter. With all the EVSEs we have on this forum and with all the different results we are getting, I can see this to be true. Obviously some did follow the J1772 standards and others put their own twist on it.

Being in the software industry myself, I know the nightmare this is for Mitsubishi. Building software is very difficult because you never know what the end user is going to do with it. We have to code for every possible possibility and we still miss a lot and get complaints and support tickets. I'm glad I only code internal projects where I can be guaranteed what web browser is being used. There are HTML standards and everyone is SUPPOSED to follow it, but everyone knows that each browser has their own twists on the standard.

We are basically driving a computer and its going to have its quirks and bugs when used with various adapters. Liken this to the early days of PCs when we wanted to add a video card or some other peripheral. What a headache! Very lucky if it even worked with your brand of computer and setting all the dip switches a hundred different ways and staying up all freaking night to realize the video card wasn't even compatible even though the box said it was! I remember those days very clearly, especially since I was a field service technician back then.

I know this sounds like fanboy crap but I just don't see where Mitsubishi is at fault here. The remote works with the supplied EVSE. The remote is not a standard piece of equipment on an Electric Vehicle - its a nicety and a mileage saver. Some cars overseas don't even come with the remote. If you aren't getting the results you desire, then I'd suggest not modifying the supplied EVSE or buying one of the EVSEs where the remote does work. Also, all the cars are charging from the various EVSE, again Mitsubishi delivered as advertised. I don't recall reading anywhere that the remote is guaranteed to work with all EVSEs. That is asking for a lot of extra expense that would raise the price of the car.
 
MLucas, it was pure speculation (and hope) that the Clipper Creek EVSE issue was Remote-related.
derminghsieh provided the text of the Mitsu letter and it sounds as though there's an end-of-charge problem.
In any case, I'm glad that's being addressed and we'll see if any fixes carry-over to the Remote issue.
 
JoeS said:
MLucas, it was pure speculation (and hope) that the Clipper Creek EVSE issue was Remote-related.
derminghsieh provided the text of the Mitsu letter and it sounds as though there's an end-of-charge problem.
In any case, I'm glad that's being addressed and we'll see if any fixes carry-over to the Remote issue.

Thanks, JoeS. I too hope it carries over and fixes the remote issue with the EVSEs that are having the problem. Its a nifty gadget that I've become accustomed to having.
 
MLucas said:
From reading all of the documents on the Open EVSE site, I know I came across something that said the J1772 is a standard but not all companies follow it to the letter. With all the EVSEs we have on this forum and with all the different results we are getting, I can see this to be true. Obviously some did follow the J1772 standards and others put their own twist on it.
I think our problem is that Mitsu has 'put their own twist on it'

Obviously, I don't know 1/10th of what you do about programming, but there is still a standard and the car should be programmed to operate correctly with any EVSE following that standard

What Chris at Open EVSE was talking about with reference to not all companies following the standard to the letter is the fact that the standard calls for the EVSE having GFCI protection, stuck relay protection and open/shorted diode protection, as well as sensing the need for battery ventilation - Our OEM EVSE built by Panasonic does none of that, but some other brands do, the Open EVSE being among them

Obviously, Mitsu can program the car to where it accepts a very loose interpretation of the J1772 standard . . . . otherwise the OEM EVSE would not work. Surely, it shouldn't be a big issue for them to program the car to accept a strict(er) interpretation of the standard - In other words, if you have an EVSE which better adheres to the standard than the one that came with the car, it ought to work and all the car's functions should work as advertised. I suspect this is what's coming with the 'Clipper Creek' software update . . . . at least I hope that's what they're doing

I got the Clipper Creek letter from Mitsu today and it sounds like they recognize that the problem is with the car and not with this particular EVSE. Hopefuly, reprogramming the car to correct this 'incompatibility' will resolve the EVSE/Remote Control issues many here have been experiencing

Don
 
As a daily user of the Remote, and someone who has a GE Wattstation that requires me to do the "On/Off Dance" I was thrilled to receive the same letter today.

Even though the letter names Clipper Creek specifically, this issue is not specific to them only. I'm sure my Wattstation will finally be working just like my Mitsubishi supplied EVSA after this update. To bad I have to wait for January.

I'll report back once I can verify this does indeed solve the issue.
 
Thanks everyone for their contributions.

I thought to add mine. I have EVSEUpgraded original Panasonic unit that is used mostly at L1. I do use the remote from time to time and it works normally without a glitch (at L1). One thing to mention is that I did not realize until recently that the precool/preheat function will work only when all the doors are closed. Make sure you are not making the same mistake. You can open the door once the process initiates, though.
 
It's January. Has anyone had this update performed yet?

EDIT: Nevermind, called my dealer and the firmware hasn't arrived yet. Said to try back in a couple weeks. I think i'm going to wait until Mitsubishi sends me another letter saying the firmware is actually ready, or check again in February.
 
Back
Top