New 120 volt charger for 2013 ?

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DonDakin

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
387
Location
Montreal Quebec.....
Hi there,

I found this online

http://www.caaquebec.com/DocumentLibrary/UploadedContents/RoadTestAttachment/mitsubishi-i-miev-2012-en_0.pdf


They mention a 12 hour 120 Volt charger for 2013. I guess it's the same charger with the amps up at about 15.

I hope they offer an upgrade to us 2012 model year buyers.

Don......
 
A new EVSE (the 'charger' is in the car) from Mitsubushi is nearly $1K - It sounds like for 2013 (if they do make a 2013 model) they are switching to the same EVSE that comes with the Nissan Leaf - It's identical to ours except it supplies 12 amps

You can send your OEM EVSE off to http://www.evseupgrade.com and they will modify it so that it recharges at 12 amps using either 120 or 240 VAC. The 12@120 will cut your recharge time down to around 12 or 13 hours and plugging it into 240 will cut it to about 6 hours. A very practical, rugged, versatile, and portable EVSE that you can take along for opportunity recharging

The EVSE comes back looking just the same, except that it has a different plug on it. You can add an adapter to be able to use it with just about any type outlet, anywhere - Standard 120 volt 20 amp outlet, either of the common 240 volt dryer outlets, a 208 volt 3 phase outlet at work . . . . just about anything you'll find if you have an adapter to fit the outlet - Carry the appropriate 12 inch pigtail. Well worth the money, IMO. I sent mine off to be upgraded 2 or 3 weeks after we bought the car . . . . no more 8 amp trickle charges for me :D

Don
 
Hi Don,

I did know about evse upgrade and what they are doing.

If it's true I think this will be a significant feature for the i next year. They can claim a 12 hour charge time and no need for a 240 volt home charger for most people. It also may validate the evse upgrade from Mitsubishi's point of view. I think that Mitsubishi's official position is that the EVSE upgrade is not to be used. That would be kind of weakened if they offer the same product.

BTW

Did anyone else hear about this from any other source ?

Don.....
 
There are probably a hundred different ways to charge the car. So long as whatever you use is J1772 compliant it won't affect the car's warranty. Any attempt by Mitsubishi to tell you exactly *which* EVSE to buy is like GM telling you to only buy Chevron gas. When you recharge at commercial stations around town, you'd be using whatever they chose to offer you and it's not likely to be a brand of Mitsu's choosing. So long as they are in compliance with the standard, it's none of Mitsu's business what you use

My home made Open EVSE is capable of recharging the car at 120 volts at 16 amps . . . . if the car would accept it. I haven't tried it, but I think the car is limited to about 14.5 amps on L1. What I REALLY like about the Open EVSE is, I can set it to charge at whatever rate I like on either 120 or 240. I can select anything between 6 amps and 20 . . . . all perfectly J1772 compliant - Actually, MORE compliant with the standard than the OEM EVSE plus it's GFCI protected as well and the OEM unit isn't

If you need to install a dedicated outlet to charge your car, you might as well make it a 240 volt outlet. Other than a second circuit breaker, the costs are about the same. Both use the same 12/3 wire . . . . the 240 outlet may cost you a bit more than a standard household outlet but those are very minor expenses

If you want a factory built, Panasonic L1 charger just like the one you have, but capable of 12 amps right now, buy one from Nissan and you're good to go - No need to wait around for Mitsu to offer you one

Don
 
Hi Don,

I totally agree. I think there is a lot of mis-information and confusion about EVSE equipment out there. I also think that part of selling an EV in a country is the spin off industry of the EVSE equipment. Which I don't really agree with because it's so overpriced at this point. I can't understand why any EV manufacturer does not sell an EVSE that will plug into the standard 120 and 240 plugs out there in most of the homes of the destination country. The only reason I can think of is that they are creating an EVSE market for EVSE equipment manufacturers because of agreements that were made when the car was permitted to be sold in that country. Just a guess on my part.

So if Mitsu do provide a 120 V 15 amp EVSE next year I like that idea. I think it will be good for the car as a selling point. I have been good up to now with 120 V 8 amp charging but I'l see how that works thru the winter....

Don.....
 
I don't they they're doing it just to set up an aftermarket EVSE business. I think they'd be offering a higher powered EVSE with the car if they were sure it was safe - They DO in Europe and most other overseas markets. Certainly they would LOVE to be able to advertise much faster recharge times

Far and away the safest way to deal with large electrical loads is to power them using 240 volts - The Europeans have it all over us because there, everything is 240, so of course the cars all ship with Level 2 EVSE's. This is what they should do here, IMO but they're trying to make the car usable for those who only have a 120 volt outlet without them having to rewire their houses. At 240, the current is halved, the wire sizes can be smaller and/or longer and the electrical losses are a small percentage of what they would be at 120. While 15 amp loads can be safely handled at 120 if everything is done exactly correctly, it's still much safer and advisable to do do all loads above 1500 watts at 240. If your primary concern is quick recharge times, you should spend your money on a Level 2 EVSE rather than hoping for a 15 amp Level 1 unit . . . . or, get your EVSE upgraded and install a 240 outlet for it

I do understand Mitsu's logic offering us only a 120 volt 8 amp EVSE completely - If they ever decide to do something different, I think they'll need an on-site electrical inspector in every dealership. On 120 volts, larger loads on questionable wiring just isn't safe

Recharging an EV on 120 volts using more current than 8 amps could be very risky for the company. As we've seen here, most of us managed to buy the car without anyone actually coming out to the house to determine if our household wiring is adequate for the task. Even a 100 year old house with marginal wiring should be able to safely handle an 8 amp load . . . . even if the outlet it's plugged into is powering something else in the home . . . . even if the outlet is protected with an antique glass fuse. Despite the warning not to do so in the owners manual, we all KNOW that some folks will plug this thing in using a long extension cord - With an 8 amp EVSE, even that should be safe

If they sent us home with a 120 volt EVSE with a higher current rating, some of the above might not be true - All they need is for a single buyer to burn down their house with equipment they provided with the car and the lawsuits and bad publicity would never end. Higher current EVSE's should be professionally installed, or at least by an educated, qualified amateur who understands what he's doing AND what he's risking

They would actually much rather sell cars ONLY to people who have on-site home wiring inspections, but as of now they just aren't set up to make that happen all across the continent and since not having such a network would further complicate selling the car, they just have everyone sign a waiver, send them off with their 8 amp trickle charger and hope for the best . . . . or at least that's how I see it - I don't think they're trying to hold everyone up for an extra grand for a better EVSE . . . . I think they're just being overly cautious, as they probably should be

Don
 
Hey Don,

I think your right about 120 V 8 amp being a safe charging level but as you pointed out Nissan is charging at 120 v 12 amps. I think they need to with the leaf battery size if not the charge times would get too long. So while I agree charging at 240 V with lower amps is safer in terms of current draw I think 120 V 12 Amp charging must be pretty safe also given the number of leafs out there. If we could charge the i at 12 amps then we drop charge times another 50 % and still have a really simple charging solution for most people. That would pretty much allow people to get a full charge overnight on 120 V. I think it would kill the need for a 220 V charging (for the i) for a lot of people.

Of course there will always be people that want to charge as fast as possible and a 240 16 Amp EVSE would be the best for them.

I'm waiting until L2 240 V 16 Amp EVSE's drop in price some more before getting one. I'm also thinking about what I can do to build one a la open EVSE too.

I'm feeling out my real needs in terms of how fast I need to charge the car. So far I have done everything on 120 V at home with a little 240 V charging at local car dealers when I need a little boost.

Thanks for the info and thoughts

Don.......
 
In Europe the i-MiEV originally came with the Panasonic 230V/16A EVSE. Now it comes programmed down to 230V/10A not for the batteries but because our ancient mains cabeling cannot carry 16A the sockets would melt because electricians have not put slives on the cable before tying the screws in the sockets and in the plugs in particular.

People promoting the turn away from carbon and to solar and electric cars, say 8A is all we can do or some ancient buildings will risk to die in flames.

With 120V you are always on the safe side but how is cabeling in your garage and house?

As far as I have seen in Quebec your cables are perfect. I have been at Montreal, Quebec City and at the Lake St. Jean. What I have seen, I wish our electricity in Europe was that good.

But never mind we are used to frying our ham and eggs with 400V 3 phase turning ... so we do not need to turn the pan ourselves and our cars are feed with 3 phase turning too or the weels would not turn. AC gets used only for the windsrceen wipers :lol:
 
HI Peter,

My house is a little older with 100 amp entrance. I am charging off a dedicated outlet that was run for the washing machine. Back in the 60's when my house was built the washer must have needed a dedicated line. This washer outlet is very close to the garage where the car is. I have a new washer that takes a lot less electricity and I have run the washer and charged the car at 8 amps 120 volts at the same time no problem. I would like to charge at 240 V 8 amps as you know. Since the dryer is right beside the washer that may be a pretty easy thing to do. But for now I'm getting along fine with 120 Volt 8 amp charging.

Don....
 
To be fair,
Once your EVSE is modified, it is no longer UL Listed,
and the 240v plug-in usage (for indoor use only)
is unlikely to meet NEC part 625 codes, since most
do not have the required strain-relief safety features.

To make the 120v EVSE less expensive, the features
only required for 240v operation were not included.

But, many have been using the modified LEAF EVSE
(Nissan Panasonic 12 amp 120v unit) successfully
to charge their LEAF for more than a year.
 
Hi Don,

looks very similar to ours. We have got 3 main fuses (melting type not replaceable by lay people) mostly 35A. In kitchen and washing rooms each power socket is meant to have its own 16A fuse (automaton, works like a switch. We can switch it on again after it tripped). Some newer households have got 50A or even 75A but older households might even have got only 25A main fuses and some have got 1 only not 3. Those hoses usually have one fuse only for each room and it fuses all lights and power sockets in that room. No way to charge a car from those sockets. We are living in one of those but I am glad we have 3 times 35A and the washing room is ground level. I can drive almost to the 2 separately fused sockets.

garygid, CEE plugs and sockets might be interesting for you too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309

I am sure they meet the standards.

Our (240V) P+N+E becomes your (120V) 2P+E feeding 240V in both cases to the EVSE. Color blue.
 
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