DBMandrake
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:41 am

JoeS wrote:Simon and Kenny, thank you both for such wonderfully detailed information about fixing the OBC and thus making it easier for those of us who will have to face this in the future. :ugeek: Wishing you all the best as the moment of truth arrives today when you fire up the car :!: ....

My fuse (I actually ordered two just in case) got caught in customs today and there are customs charges due before it will be released which will add a day or two delay. Argh!! Waiting for a part for my Petrol car as well which has turned out not to be the write-off that I first thought, but it still leaves us without any working car for the next few days... :(
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

DBMandrake
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:13 am

Looks like the fuse is finally arriving tomorrow after paying customs charges... in the meantime here is a picture of the potted caps that I meant to post earlier:

Image

This is neutral cure high voltage high temperature electrical silicone which sets to a similar rubbery consistency to the original stuff. I dare those caps to move with vibration :D

When you're soldering onto the old existing legs (which are quite skinny) I think it's important the caps are re-potted for physical stability as they do wobble around a bit otherwise and would eventually fatigue and break the original leads. It wouldn't be as wobbly if you could remove the old legs completely and solder the new capacitor legs through hole properly but that would mean removing the waffle plate with the inherent risk of causing further damage.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

DBMandrake
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:32 pm

Good news. :) The fuse finally arrived today and the rest was a bit of an anti-climax!

I fitted the fuse, put the cover back on the MCU, refitted the traction battery safety link, reconnected the 12v battery, plugged the car into charge listening for a bang but all I got was charging. :D I checked the 12v battery and it was charging at 14.5 volts so the DC/DC is working.

So back in with the seat over the link plug, reconnect the airbag and then reset all the fault codes with Diagbox. I then let it charge to 100%, ran some errands to the tune of about 40 miles and on the way home used a rapid charger just to double check the Chademo port was working which it was.

So it's all fixed. :mrgreen: Thanks to everyone in this thread - without those who have trailblazed this issue I don't think I would have been able to solve it by myself, at least not nearly as quickly! Most of the delay in getting the car fixed has been waiting for parts and materials and good weather! The actual repair itself could be done in a day, allowing a bit of time for the silicone to cure properly.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

Easky15
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:07 pm

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:28 pm

DBMandrake wrote:Good news. :) The fuse finally arrived today and the rest was a bit of an anti-climax!

I fitted the fuse, put the cover back on the MCU, refitted the traction battery safety link, reconnected the 12v battery, plugged the car into charge listening for a bang but all I got was charging. :D I checked the 12v battery and it was charging at 14.5 volts so the DC/DC is working.

So back in with the seat over the link plug, reconnect the airbag and then reset all the fault codes with Diagbox. I then let it charge to 100%, ran some errands to the tune of about 40 miles and on the way home used a rapid charger just to double check the Chademo port was working which it was.

So it's all fixed. :mrgreen: Thanks to everyone in this thread - without those who have trailblazed this issue I don't think I would have been able to solve it by myself, at least not nearly as quickly! Most of the delay in getting the car fixed has been waiting for parts and materials and good weather! The actual repair itself could be done in a day, allowing a bit of time for the silicone to cure properly.



Hi DBMandrake, Glad to hear you're up and running again, Can you tell me what potting compound you used or even better provide a link for it? Think my board is a bit worse off than your one but again with the help of the great guys in this forum it should be sorted soon,

DBMandrake
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:50 am

Easky15 wrote:Hi DBMandrake, Glad to hear you're up and running again, Can you tell me what potting compound you used or even better provide a link for it? Think my board is a bit worse off than your one but again with the help of the great guys in this forum it should be sorted soon,

Sure no problem.

It's not a traditional "potting compound" as such - as they usually set very hard like varnish, It's basically just a neutral cure silicone rubber with a high breakdown voltage rating and reasonably high temperature rating. It has a very similar consistency to the original stuff - eg rubbery and easy to cut with a sharp blade or dig out with a small scraper.

I ordered it from here:

https://uk.farnell.com/acc-silicones/as ... dp/8497516

From the description:

The AS1701-75ML is a 75ml neutral flame-retardant thixotropic Adhesive Sealant is a specially formulated neutral cure silicone sealant designed for use with sensitive electronic assemblies. It is described as an alkoxy 1-part room temperature vulcanising (RTV) silicone sealant. The alkoxy cure system produces a silicone sealant with excellent adhesion to most common substrates. Black paste appearance with 3 minute tack free time.

As it's a cartridge (and an uncommon small 75ml size) I had to order a gun for it as well:

https://uk.farnell.com/acc-silicones/48 ... dp/4625183

A bit pricey but I was in a real hurry to get it so I could get the job finished and get the car back on the road. I'm sure something similar could be found in a normal squeeze tube dispenser at a cheaper price. Just make sure it's neutral cure and rated for high voltages. (Eg non-conductive!)

I also used some of the leftover for the new gasket on the top lid - I just scraped the bead of old sealant off the lid with an old credit card as well as the top edge of the box and ran a bead of the silicone around the box then tightened the lid down and let it set.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

misterbleepy
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:53 am
Location: Newquay, Cornwall, UK

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:45 am

Good job DBMandrake - great to hear you fixed it and the car is a runner once more
Keith B.
driving with the power of 15.667 kettles

Dionisiy7
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:18 am

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:00 am

Hello. I have the same problem I've seen in this forum. The car has stopped charging. As I unscrewed it, I noticed that the R106 resistor is damaged. This is a resistor to limit the charging current of three 680 uF capacitors. After replacement for a working one, nothing has changed. After connecting the car to 230V, the fan cooling battery turns on for a moment, 350V appears on power factor improvement and in a second a yellow exclamation mark appears and immediately turns off Power factor improvement and the voltage begins to drop on 680 uF capacitors. There are no control signals on the T501 T502 transformers. Error P1A12 appears. I checked all the components that are in the big black cube (transistors and bridge rectifier.) I checked the relay. I noticed that there is a circuit that checks the voltage drop across resistors. All components are functional (D312 D311 D315 D316)

Did someone solve a similar problem?

I wonder why the relay turned off during charging (which caused the r106 resistors to burn)? this relay is controlled by a microcontroller located on the top board.
It is possible that power factor improvement creates too low voltage, and for this nothing further works? The capacitors are at 420 V, and it creates 350V. Maybe it should be 370V or 400V for example?
Diagram of the entire layout ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tHilCx ... OVV85/view )

Sandrosan
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:43 am
Location: Milan, Italy

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:08 am

DBMandrake wrote:Good news. :) The fuse finally arrived today and the rest was a bit of an anti-climax!

I fitted the fuse, put the cover back on the MCU, refitted the traction battery safety link, reconnected the 12v battery, plugged the car into charge listening for a bang but all I got was charging. :D I checked the 12v battery and it was charging at 14.5 volts so the DC/DC is working.

So back in with the seat over the link plug, reconnect the airbag and then reset all the fault codes with Diagbox. I then let it charge to 100%, ran some errands to the tune of about 40 miles and on the way home used a rapid charger just to double check the Chademo port was working which it was.

So it's all fixed. :mrgreen: Thanks to everyone in this thread - without those who have trailblazed this issue I don't think I would have been able to solve it by myself, at least not nearly as quickly! Most of the delay in getting the car fixed has been waiting for parts and materials and good weather! The actual repair itself could be done in a day, allowing a bit of time for the silicone to cure properly.


Very well done SBMandrake, bravo! I am happy for you that your car is on the road again.
So what do you think about the cause of such fault? An AC swell, surge due to poor quality of your AC 240V grid?

If the blue caps got that swell, they did their job (becoming a short circuit) protecting the rest of more expensive component and blowing the fuse.

But have you replaced them with more robust ones with higher voltage treshold? If so don't you think next time they will not protect the other expensive components?

Or is the fuse that blowing for any mechanical? reason like vibration, opening the circuit so suddenly to create a swell that triggered the blu caps?

Please kindly let me / us know your view on what could be happend in your OBC, thanks in advance.
Sandrosan

kiev
Posts: 1228
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:18 pm

Here is a simplified functional schematic of the OBC, MCU and Pack, showing details of the HV DC Output section with the snubber caps and MCU fuse that seems to blow.

During charging there is about 10 Amps of current from the OBC to the Pack thru the MCU 20A fuse.

The 20A fuse in the OBC has never been found to blow even though it is in the same current path as the MCU fuse?

Image
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

pbui19
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:17 pm

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:33 pm

"The 20A fuse in the OBC has never been found to blow even though it is in the same current path as the MCU fuse? "

How/where is the OBC 20A fuse mounted ? you had hypothesized previously that the MCU 20A may suffered from mechanical vibration. I don't know where the OBC 20A fuse is.

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