Winterization of our C-Zero

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jsantala

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
296
Location
Finland
We have started the winterization project of our 2011 Citroën C-Zero.

I've purchased a set of Calix parts which includes a vehicle inlet, cabin outlet and a electric heater to pre-heat the heating liquid:

Inlet: http://www.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/454977/Calix-Mini-johtosarja-MKMS1525-1525m
Oulet: http://www.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/454965/Calix-Mini-haaroitussarja-GL25-1015m
Heater: http://www.calix.se/files/3375fc45fe51a55144a2d461cdf37762.pdf/CVH19_EN.pdf

I haven't installed the Calix stuff yet, but I already have an electric cabin heater installed in the back:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwgrr2l5puu5tsj/2014-10-06%2018.49.59.jpg?dl=0

Traditionally these have been installed in the front passanger footwell, but I thought I'd try something different this time. I haven't yet decided whether to have the inlet in the front, where it usually is, or in the back, with the charging ports.

The heater is one of these Defa units with selectable 0/700/1200 W output:

http://www.defa.com/en/automotive/warmup/products/interior_heaters/termina_1200s/

I will also be adding a Webasto or similar liquid burning heater for the longer trips. I'll most likely use domestic bioethanol made using biowaste. More on that later. I will also update with pics as the installation proceeds.
 
Yesterday I picked up a Russian Binar 5B 5kW gasoline heater which also works on ethanol:

http://autoterm.pro/en/shop/engine-preheaters/binar-5c-compact-engine-preheater/

Looks like I'll need to move the 12V battery somewhere else to get enough room for the heater.
 
This one looks quite different from the ones that other forum members got from AliExpress, and quite a bit more expensive. What kind of warranty do you get on this one?
I think the method of installing behind the bumper is easier than relocating the battery, but in the Euro version with smaller bumpers, there probably isn't enough room.
 
Yes, it's not the model from China, which looks like an Eberspächer rip-off. It's actually made in Russia. Water and fuel pumps are from elsewhere, but came included in the package. Also in the package were more than enough installation parts. Like more hose clamps I've ever owned before. :D

It was a bit more expensive, but if I'd order anything outside Europe I'd need to pay toll (3%) plus VAT (24%), so usually any USD priced equipment ends up costing the same amount in Euros anyway. And now I have a place where I can go complain if the thing doesn't work. The seller said the guarantee was 12 months, but the manufacturer actually claims 24 months.

There isn't enough room within the bumper and this model is also a little harder to install anywhere else either, because at least according to the manual it has to be in a upright position or tilted no more than 45 degrees. Definitely not on it's side. It is however said to run fine on ethanol, which I will be burning. The only thing missing now is a little fuel tank, which seems to be the hardest part to find. I'm thinking something like half a gallon, so as small as possible.
 
Here it is in place of the 12V battery:
binar5.jpg


And here's the exhaust sticking out underneath:
exhaust.jpg
 
In your first photo, is that some very rusty sheet metal near the lower right corner? If so, is that due to Finland's salting its roads in the winter? If it's salt damage, how is the rest of the body doing? I'm concerned that these little cars are especially susceptible to corrosion damage.
 
I can't see rust in the pics, so I don't know which bit you're referring to. My car has been a floor model for 3 years, so it's spent most of it's time indoors, or well protected, I hope. Definitely not being punished in the worst weather. I bought it only recently. Only rust I've noticed is in some usual places, like washers and such, and then mainly in the back. The roof had a couple of dents with some rust, but they fixed those and painted the whole roof before I received the vehicle.

It is true that salt and winter hurt the vehicles quite badly in these parts. I've considered having the vehicle protected by one of these companies that specialize in such operations. However, it's a rather unusual vehicle and some of the places that tend to rust are plastic. Like the sides of the vehicle. On the other hand, the bits that expose metal to a rain of stones and salt don't have much protection.
 
I got the heater installed today. The 12V 20Ah lithium battery is happily in the back of the car and the heater is working:

installation.jpg

The heater is behind the big lump of extra wiring on the left, fuel pump in top center, water pump bottom center and 1.2l (about 1/3 gallon) ethanol tank in the right. It's actually a wiper fluid tank, so not optimal, but the best I've found so far. Will keep looking for a better solution.

controls.jpg

Controls found a nice place in the dash. You can program it, but I'll probably just turn it on manually as needed. It can also show 12V battery voltage and current heating liquid temperature, which is really nice.
 
Very nicely done .
Interesting to see the differences with the North American version.
The heater is a huge step forward for our EV driving experience in cold conditions
We did a 92 km drive in temperatures around 0 C in total comfort yesterday morning.
Enjoy a warm winter in your EV
 
Here's a shot of the small lithium 12V aux battery I have in the rear luggage compartment now:
battery.jpg


It's one of these:
http://www.ev-power.eu/LiFeYPO4-batteries-12V-1-1/Lithium-Battery-LiFePO4-12V-20Ah.html

Now I'm not entirely happy with the setup, since I know that continuously charging a LiFePO4 battery with about 3.65 volts per cell which the DC/DC-converter in the car puts out (or about 14.6 volts in total) will in the long run damage this 12V lithium battery. LiFePO4 batteries should be charged to a voltage and the disconnected, instead of being continuously charged. They might take it for a while though, but I don't know how long. I'll have to think about what to do. Going back to a lead battery, albeit a sealed and/or AGM one, would be an option, since they, like the original battery, don't mind receiving a constant charge. Then again having one inside the car, and even in general, rubs me the wrong way.
 
There are dozens of small AGM batteries designed for various motorcycles. It should be easy to find one of the exact size to fit your available space under the hood. A motorcycle AGM with about the same capacity as the OEM lead acid battery is much smaller and if you're happy with 12 or 15 AH capacity, you can find really small ones in many shapes and sizes and at quite reasonable cost

Don
 
I measured my car while in READY. Voltage was 14.1-14.2 volts. That would be 3.55 volts per cell. Unlike lead, once lithium is charged to a voltage, it'll stay there and only transfer energy if voltage changes. It's not much different than having LiFePO4 cells paralleled together.

Lead's resting voltage is below 13, so the car's converter keeps trying to bring the voltage up, constantly consuming energy. LiFePO4 would charge until it hit the voltage of the converter, then charging would pretty much stop, save for a few milliamps as voltage fluctuates slightly. So, a lithium battery would probably be more efficient.
 
I've been driving with the LiFePO4 battery for some days now and also done a couple of charges. It appears to be happy so far. Also it seems that at least during L2 charging the DC/DC converter is on, but isn't pushing a significant amount of amps into the 12V system. At least according to my cheap clamp meter. So I think it will be ok. The system might actually be smart enough not to waste electricity by converting more that needed to keep the 12V bus at around 14.5 volts.

On standby the lithium battery will rest at about 13.3 volts, which is to be expected. About 13.6 volts is still ok. If it ends up being higher I'll know it's being overcharged and if it goes much lower I'll know that the battery has been damaged and there might be an internal soft short within one of the cells.

Oh, btw, I used 16mm2 cable, about 5 meters in length, on the positive side. Under the hood it's connected to the original battery clamp and from there it goes to the under of the car and inside using the small-ish rubber protected hole, which is under the center console. From there it goes under the driver's floor mat to the side of the car and I just pushed it into and under the plastic covers that go along the side, all the way to the rear luggage compartment.

There's a 100 amp fuse right at the battery and as near the positive terminal as possible. The minus cable is also 16mm2 and about a meter in length. It goes from the battery negative to the screw which holds down the ISOfix "top tether" anchor on the left hand size of the vehicle. 16mm2 cable is good for 16*6=96 amps, so the 100 amp fuse is appropriately sized.
 
The converter is a constant voltage converter, and will only push as many amps as necessary to meet the set voltage, up to 80 amps. It comes on when the car is READY or charging.
 
Congrats on the setup.

Just wondering if that fairly small amount of ethanol can be hazardous in case of colision as it is in the crash zone (crossing fingers it never happens).

Can the fuel be lower down or under the car, for example below back bumper or so...
 
Llecentaur,
I've also thought about that and I share the concern. There would be plenty of space in the back for a bigger, better tank, which wouldn't need to be refilled as often. Then again, it is a very small tank and I'll only be using it part of the year, although the most slippery part, of course. A tank in the back could also be vulnerable to a crash from behind, so it's not perfect either.
 
The ethanol heater has been working flawlessly. I'm also finally progressing on the electric heater installation. I made a hole to the engine bay cover in the trunk to get a cable through. Now I'll just need to install the inlet. I haven't yet decided whether it will be in the front the rear. I guess it also depends if I'll install the electric liquid heater as well.
 
Got the inlet finally installed today. It's a product by Calix and the heater is a Defa.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ol57q9w3h8uuc57/2014-11-08%2015.05.16.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jfueitjt85tgym/2014-11-08%2015.05.27.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mq6kwtru0nyfblc/2014-11-08%2015.26.41.jpg?dl=0
 
Went ahead and installed 1 cm foam for insulation and soundproofing on all four doors:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/561i3xjcx8rqu5g/2015-07-18%2015.31.19.jpg?dl=0

Also sprayed some anti-stone chip behind the front wheels:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9ms7xuodatdd8y/2015-07-19%2016.11.46.jpg?dl=0

And made this 80 km/h speed limit sign held on by magnets for those times one needs to drive slow:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g6gsvvoctv17u0a/2015-07-18%2020.03.30.jpg?dl=0

More on the insulation in my blog:
http://kwsaki.blogspot.fi/2015/07/added-insulation.html
 
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