jaraczs
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:03 pm
Location: Somerset, NJ

Re: Instant Heat... so far

Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:58 pm

PV1 wrote:If only we could keep the circulating pump running in the heater loop...

The water pump is operated by applying 12V to a relay located on the left (passenger) side under the front hood. Since the pump does not draw too much power, you may as well wire direct from battery and install switch inside somewhere on the dash.
However, water is not efficient energy storage and you would have to use antifreeze anyway. It would be very challenging trying to fit 5L thermo in proximity of the heater circuit. Maybe 1/2 of it can be accomplished by increasing the size of the reservoir in the front.

BenBrown
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:39 pm
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan

Re: Instant Heat... so far

Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:12 pm

I wonder if anyone has ever tried battery heated socks?

tonymil wrote:I'm in Albany and I get by with a heated vest, a warm coat and the seat heater until the car heater warms up. And I find that even in very cold weather the car heater warms up pretty quickly. Because of the vest and seat heater, I find I don't need to whole cabin warmed up to feel comfortable, as long as I feel warm air blowing on me I'm ok.

Tony

sandange
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 am
Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Instant Heat... so far

Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:11 am

I tried battery heated sock with little satisfaction - might be the quality , but they were not enough and uncomfortable to walk with .
DonD and some others have tried battery or 12v (accessory plugged in) heated shoe insoles & were are satisfied, Some also complained they're uncomfortable to walk with.
Tesla Model 3 SR+, 2019
Previous EVs
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
200,000 km , 124.000 miles.
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

jray3
Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am
Location: Tacoma area, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Instant Heat... so far

Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:40 am

jaraczs wrote:
PV1 wrote:If only we could keep the circulating pump running in the heater loop...

The water pump is operated by applying 12V to a relay located on the left (passenger) side under the front hood. Since the pump does not draw too much power, you may as well wire direct from battery and install switch inside somewhere on the dash.
However, water is not efficient energy storage and you would have to use antifreeze anyway. It would be very challenging trying to fit 5L thermo in proximity of the heater circuit. Maybe 1/2 of it can be accomplished by increasing the size of the reservoir in the front.


Jaracz, I like that idea of a secondary switch to keep the circ pump running (preferably with a time delay to keep it from killing the 12V battery), and that would work with a supplemental reservoir. However, why would you say that water is not efficient energy storage? There's very few better options, even without a phase change. Sure, adding antifreeze costs a few points, but it's better for heat storage than added battery capacity. I ran those numbers a year or so ago, but am not finding them right now. Only thing more practical could be plumbing the water loop through a tank of paraffin that solidifies between 70 and 100 degrees F, so as to recover the latent heat.
Last edited by jray3 on Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 105,400 miles
2000 Mazda Miata EV, 78 kW, 17 kWh
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt EV,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

BarryP
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:30 pm
Location: Idaho Falls

Re: Instant Heat... so far

Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:41 pm

BenBrown wrote:I wonder if anyone has ever tried battery heated socks?


Haven't needed them.
In the winter here in Idaho Falls, my wife and I have rarely used the heater. And we might use the heated seat once/year. Heated seats are not a commodity for us. Some tips:
1. My wife put heat reflective foam on the seats. This is basic egg-crate packing foam. Then she put a towel over that (it ties down to the seat to keep everything from moving). The gluteal never gets cold. And the car becomes cushier. And in the summer, this cushion was breathable enough to eliminate sweat.
2. In the winter we always wear a very thin layer of long johns all day. It keeps us warm in the car and we don’t get a cold shock when getting out of the car. It also keeps us comfortable in buildings (if it stays <70F).
3. Wear down gloves. They’re light and comfy. Then we don’t get a cold shock when getting out of the car to go in the store.
4. Wear a light hat. Then we don’t get a cold shock when getting out of the car to go in the store.
5. Buy a nice 8oz down coat. We don’t even feel it on. If it drops to 0F add an 8oz fleece jacket underneath. You don’t need an electric vest or electric blanket. Down coats can handle a very wide range of temperatures.
6. Use the defroster for 15-60 seconds at a time. That’s all it takes to clear the window.
7. Use -40F windshield fluid.
8. Wear a comfortable boot. I’ve loved my down North Face Nuptse Boot. It’s not uncommon to see people walk in boots all day. However, at work I do switch out to sandals. Ironically my boots are lighter than the sandals. I wear a thin layer of sock followed by a thick wool sock that I will change once/week. I change the liner sock every day.
9. I do store the iMiev in a garage that stays at 40F.
10. If it super cold (<10F), I also wear a balaclava. Not only does this keep my face warm but keeps the breath off the windows. And I don’t get a cold shock when I get out of the car.


-Barry
Bought iMiev June 6, 2013, Now leaving electrons in my wake @ ~1000miles/month
Original owner Prius 2002 275,000+ miles
Original owner Prius 2009 125,000+ miles

BenBrown
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:39 pm
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan

Re: Instant Heat... so far

Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:33 pm

Barry,

Thanks for those tips... Today on the advice of another forum member I parked the car in the sun while running an errand. It made a huge difference and better than pre-heating in our very sunny 23 degree weather. Felt like 70 inside the car.

I think I will look at floor insulation if it looks like we are going to get another cold snap in the next couple of weeks. I may see about feet warmers, but if its not in the teens. At that temperature my feet don't seem to notice the cold so much.

I will look into the boots you mentioned. I've been challenged trying to find boots for my delicate size 12 5E feet. Farming, I use to purchase the 'Mickey Mouse' over sized boots with inflatable air insulation.. I'm not sure how easily they would fit beneath the steering wheel/dash.

As far as I can see, insulation looks like the best overall bang for the buck and effort. I wonder if anyone has put serious thought into how much of a difference it makes or not? It's probably too late this year for a fair test...

BarryP wrote:
BenBrown wrote:I wonder if anyone has ever tried battery heated socks?


Haven't needed them...
3. Wear down gloves. They’re light and comfy. Then we don’t get a cold shock when getting out of the car to go in the store.
6. Use the defroster for 15-60 seconds at a time. That’s all it takes to clear the window.
7. Use -40F windshield fluid.
8. Wear a comfortable boot. I’ve loved my down North Face Nuptse Boot. It’s not uncommon to see people walk in boots all day. However, at work I do switch out to sandals. Ironically my boots are lighter than the sandals. I wear a thin layer of sock followed by a thick wool sock that I will change once/week. I change the liner sock every day.

-Barry

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2992
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Instant Heat... so far

Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:55 pm

BenBrown wrote:Today on the advice of another forum member I parked the car in the sun while running an errand. It made a huge difference and better than pre-heating in our very sunny 23 degree weather. Felt like 70 inside the car.

Yep. At work, I park facing south in the cooler half of the year, and facing north in the warmer half. I've registered 70°+ F in the cupholder on 15° F days, warm enough to go without the heated seat for a while. Too bad the floor is still cold. A mirror may help with that :mrgreen: .
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!: :!:

Dropbox maintenance in progress. If any of my links aren't working after November 17, please PM me and let me know which one isn't working.

Thanks.

Mart
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Midtown, Jackson, Mississippi

Re: Instant Heat... so far

Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:21 am

Passive solar's good when you have it. I have to wonder how well a reflective radiant barrier designed for under the roof of homes would hold up beneath the floorboard, though.

jaraczs
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:03 pm
Location: Somerset, NJ

Re: Instant Heat... so far

Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:39 am

I hope that as the cost of batteries will decrease, it will be effective for manufacturers to throw money into overall thermal management. Solar heating is a good idea in the Winter but we have to bear in mind that the vehicle is meant to be used all year around, including those hot days in the Summer when you will be asking for measures preventing solar heating. This is the reason why Enerlogic film won't work because it blocks solar heating.
However, the dash is a good opportunity for implementation of system that would be reflective in the Summer but dark in the Winter. Yet, you can't have reflective dash as you drive because the light would bounce from the windshield to the driver, significantly worsening the sight (safety problem). The heat in the Winter could be actively distributed to the cabin (floor) and even into the battery if it is justified. The benefit would be available only on sunny days, irrespective of the outdoor temperature.

BenBrown
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:39 pm
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan

Re: Instant Heat... so far

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:24 pm

PV1 wrote:Yep. At work, I park facing south in the cooler half of the year, and facing north in the warmer half. I've registered 70°+ F in the cupholder on 15° F days, warm enough to go without the heated seat for a while. Too bad the floor is still cold. A mirror may help with that :mrgreen: .


Until someone had mentioned the amount of warmth the car could gain I had dismissed it as not that much of an impact. Likewise I'm thinking putting in an insulation barrier between my feet and the floor will make a big difference to my feet and I shouldn't have to remove carpeting to do that...

I'll try my first experiment Monday and try to report back soon...

Return to “Modifications & Accessories”