Phximiev
Posts: 1215
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:25 pm
Location: Phoenix

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fue

Mon May 30, 2016 5:08 pm

Thanks, we'll take a look at that catalytic heater + fan combo.
2012 iMIEV ES
2014 Chevy Volt

pluto
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:41 pm
Location: GTHA, Ontario, Canada

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fue

Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:24 am

Considering doing this to my new-to-me 2012 iMiEV before winter, I live just outside Toronto, Ontario. Round trip daily commute is only 40km but I would like to be warm and have flexibility to do more driving if need be. Plus I just like doing cool things like this :) I watched Ben's great YouTube videos and I think it's something I can handle. I have zero experience with HVAC systems, cabin heaters, or really much in the way of automotive work in general. I am fairly comfortable with electronics, and I plan to get some help from my father-in-law who is more mechanically inclined.

I'm a bit nervous about purchasing the 'knock-off' versions from Ali-Express / Chinese ebay sellers; the cost of the genuine Webasto Thermo Top Evo 4 doesn't seem all that much higher (just under 500 euros plus shipping from Germany). Will the unit here give me everything I need or do I need to purchase other components?

Couple questions:

1) I see this unit is available in Diesel or Gas, what are the pros/cons of these fuel types? I am interested in using bio-diesel potentially. I don't think E85 is available anywhere near me

2) Anything else I should consider? :)

Thanks!

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2905
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fue

Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:01 pm

I think the biggest 'con' is that gasoline is explosive, whereas diesel or ethanol is just flammable. If you plan on mounting a small container of fuel up front, under the hood where it may get crunched in an accident, I would definitely not go with gasoline

Probably everyone here but me is too young to remember, but Chevy offered a gasoline fired catalytic heater mounted in the front trunk of their Corvair in the early 1960's and there were occasionally . . . . shall we say . . . . malfunctions with the system which caused the trunk lid to be blown skyward off the car - They quit offering those heaters after only a year or two. In later years though, many of those gasoline heaters were retrofitted to heat hunting cabins and other things. They were a very quiet, fuel efficient heating system with way more capacity than any car would ever need . . . . but they ran on gasoline!!

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=19 ... ajaxhist=0

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

sandange
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 am
Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fue

Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:34 pm

I installed the knock off, jp parking diesel heater. I've used it for 2 seasons now,blew a fuse once . I have 89,000 km, so far in a little over 2 years . Used the heater for at least 1/3 of those kms. Totally changes the EV winter driving experience. Do it and don't look back. I'm in Quebec
Tesla Model 3 SR+, 2019
Previous EVs
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
200,000 km , 124.000 miles.
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

Phximiev
Posts: 1215
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:25 pm
Location: Phoenix

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fue

Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:55 pm

From a post above:
Phximiev wrote:Also, off the same site, has anyone considered an 'air heater', which is supposed to be independent of the vehicles heating system?

https://www.eberspaecher-na.com/product ... aters.html

Quote from their site: "Eberspaecher's air heaters are independent of both the engine and of the vehicle's own heat balance. They draw in cool room or outside air, heat this up and then deliver it to the interior of the vehicle."


Again, not to beat a dead horse, but this does look like it would be easier to install as one wouldn't have to touch the existing system.
2012 iMIEV ES
2014 Chevy Volt

DonDakin
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:10 pm
Location: Montreal Quebec.....

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fue

Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:52 pm

Most of the air heaters that i found are 2kw the water heater is 5 kw.

The diesel water heater plumbs right into the existing heater loop all the controls face foot defrost work normally and you can heat the battery too if you are inclined to need that.

I would think that an air heater install would be more difficult to route the heat where you want or need it. Plus the extra power of the water heater will be appreciated.

Like sandange I also bought the chinese alibaba one still running strong since winter 2014. You can get it for $516 usd shipping included. I would reccomend it. If you want something else make sure the unit will fit where ever you are planning to mount it.

Don.....

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2905
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fue

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:56 pm

Phximiev wrote:Again, not to beat a dead horse, but this does look like it would be easier to install as one wouldn't have to touch the existing system.
I think it would be considerably harder to install. With the water heater, all you need to do is Tee into the existing water loop and the rest is already there - A fan to recirculate the air already inside the car through the existing heater core. 100% of the install is outside the passenger compartment and no ducting of any air into or out of the car is required

The air heater heats outside air and that would need to be ducted into the car somehow, which would be more complicated. If you did want to heat the air already inside the car, you would have to add two new ducts - One to get inside air out of the car and into the heater and then another to get the warm air from the heater back into the car, all with associated insulation on the ductwork. Also, most fuel/air heaters give you a little bit of smell to the air from whatever you're burning - Most folks wouldn't care for air tinged even a little bit by the smell of burning diesel

With the water heater, your OEM inside/outside controls all work as they always have using the existing ducting and the existing heater core and fan . . . . you very simply added a better heat source to warm the existing heater core. Thanks to Mistu for going with a standard heated water core system as that makes adding the diesel heater very simple, relatively speaking

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

elekTrond
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:28 am
Location: middle of No(r)way

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fue

Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:15 am

First I'll thank all of you who pioneered this install, making it a walk in the park. Just finished the whole thread a second time, right before I order anything. I have an electrical question about the timer wiring :arrow:
When you guys short the red and yellow wire to crank up the heater, does it have to stay shorted, or is it enough with a pulse :?:

I have decided to invest in a kit including a GSM remote, but even the chinese JP GSM thingie is a bit expensive at a $184,- alone or $150 when combined with a set. I'm probably going for a $30,- GSM relay box, if I'm not trying to transform one of my old button-phones into a remote. Then I'll have the whole GSM module essensially for free.

I like free lunches :lol:

Prices of 2016-10-07:
$460,-/set + shipping
$610,-/heater kit/set incl. GSM module + shipping
// elekTrond von Norwegen - '13 mjau (int.eng.: miaow, mew, meow) reg 9/2012 - 750W@48V->52V BBS02

DonDakin
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:10 pm
Location: Montreal Quebec.....

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fue

Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:46 am

It has been awhile since i tested the heater with a bucket but i believe that you need to short those wires and keep them shorted to have the heater run. In that way you could run the heater with a simple on-off switch but the timer and remote open up more options.

if you want to install with a remote you would need to make sure that the fan comes on and the air is directed through the core as described above. I only have the mini timer on mine.

An alternative would be to use the preheat with the remote electrically and use the diesel on the road which is what i do. Actually the diesel heater is so powerful that you can get away without preheat with minimal discomfort but preheat is always nicer.

Another reason for electric preheat is that there is a kind of a plume of diesel fumes that gather around the car when it is stationary. Its not a problem when the car is rolling but depending on the wind you can suck some of it into the car when preheating. The electric preheat is obviously cleaner and without oder.

Don.....

elekTrond
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:28 am
Location: middle of No(r)way

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fue

Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:26 pm

Thanks for the quick reply, Don Dee. :P

Until next summer or so I live in a student condo and park in the street, often a couple of blocks away. Hence no outlet, nor preheat. :( Tested the OEM Omron remote while walking towards a parking house where the car charged. Like I suspected, it wouldn't connect until the very last corner. But I did indeed have GSM signal in situ, at the charging spot.

Unless I fork out an arm and a leg from my other end for der absolute spitzenklasse, all the GSM modules mostly act like simple, dumb on/off switches.

I have four realistic choices of heaters, times at least five types of GSM remote options. I'd like E85, but the government of No(r)way think hydrogen is better than PHEV is better than EV is better than biofuel/multifuel vehicles. A handfull of years ago, I converted my Toyota Starlet to E85. But, in secrecy, Statoil, with their 19'ish E85 pumps spread across Norway, secretly began removing all but two of them. BTW, did I mention that the gov control 2/3's of Statoil, aka big oil? Therefore, sulphuric diesel will be my choice. :roll:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GSM-TERMO-remot ... ~B&vxp=mtr

Option #1 - Planar Binar 5D-C: €695,- + €120,- = €815,- ~U$D 725,-'ish
BINAR 5D 12V DIESEL GP ( KYOCERA PLUG )
with
GSM TERMO remote control module for Planar air heater or Binar preheaters
NB! "Binar 5B-С and Binar 5D-С have the lead for connection with vehicle alarm system or for GSM- modem mounting."

Option #2 - Webasto Thermo Top E/Evo/whatever 4/5 kW:

Option #3 - Espar aka Eberspächer Hydronic 5 kW:

Option #4 - JP aka Belief aka Motorcool etc. copycats:

+ webasto/espar GSM module (expensive) or generic GSM module typ $30-> or DIY GSM module or DIY cellphone approach.

I'll come back tomorrow night with more prices, parts prices etc... Zzz...
// elekTrond von Norwegen - '13 mjau (int.eng.: miaow, mew, meow) reg 9/2012 - 750W@48V->52V BBS02

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