BMW i3 Extended Test Drive

Mitsubishi i-MiEV Forum

Help Support Mitsubishi i-MiEV Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

PV1

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,242
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
So I'll (most likely) have the opportunity to have a BMW i3 for a day or two tomorrow. Is there anything anyone would like me to compare to the i-MiEV while I have it? I'm not sure if it'll be a REx (range-extended) or not, but I gather that the engine is the only difference between the two.
 
Unless you're interested in the REx version, it would be better if you could test the BEV version because it is about 200 lb. lighter. This additional weight increases its electricity consumption rate noticeably and changes the handling a bit (all the additional weight is on one side of the rear end).

As far as I can tell, the i3 is more similar to the i-MiEV in many ways than any other EV.

• How do the exterior and interior sizes compare, not in numbers but in usability, feel, etc.?

• How does back seat ingress, comfort, and space compare with the i-MieV?

• How does cargo space both with the rear seats up and down compare?

• How does the driver's seating position compare?

• How does regen compare with i-MiEV B mode?

The i3 is an interesting car. It reminds me somewhat of my 2000 Honda Insight which remains very different from everything else on the road. I am attracted to the i3's aluminum and CFRP body which should be as corrosion-resistant as is the body on my Insight. Living in Honolulu with its warm, somewhat humid and salty air, I am not confident that my i-MiEV will age well. I understand that Honda subsidized the price of my Insight whereas BMW isn't subsidizing the prices of the i3, so I would expect to pay considerably more for the i3's aluminum and CFRP body. BMW has concentrated on keeping the i3 light which I appreciate.

I have never seen an i3 in person. When I return to Honolulu later this month, I might try to arrange an i3 test drive. The poorly-rated Honolulu BMW dealer doesn't seem to be offering extended test drives (at least, they're not being advertised on their Website), but with 16 new i3's sitting on their lot, they might be willing to offer an extended test drive to an EV owner in hopes of making a sale. I would be more likely to wait for a used one to become available as I did with my Insight rather than buy a new one as I did with my i-MiEV. If I were to sell or trade in my i-MiEV, I'd take a real financial bath.
 
PV1, I drove one again this week so I'll be interested in your comments. Note that, because it has no creep mode, you can bring it to a complete stop using regen and not touching the brake - the regen is quite powerful and I like it, but sure wish that it would have a zero-regen mode for highway driving.
 
Just picked it up. It's a REx. Their only BEV is on the floor, which you'll know they won't use for this.

Initial impressions from riding as a passenger.
1. Ride quality is pretty good.
2. Front seats are comfortable.
3. Visibility isn't bad (need to drive it to confirm).
4. Regen is impressive. I was watching the pedal while riding. 1 foot driving is pretty much spot on.

My parents went with me to get it, and my Dad drove it.

Side note: passerby impressions are much more pronounced than in the i-MiEV.
 
I got an email offering an extended test drive too - I was tempted, but the price difference from the iMiev is quite big for a car that still won't let me ditch our ICEV (which is what our next car will have to be - something at least as big for cargo AND do 100 miles [maybe a PHEV] as our current Ford Focus wagon).

Anyway, I'm mostly curious about the rear seating and weird doors. I guess they are somewhat better than a two door (my Leopard is exceedingly annoying to get my kids in and out of the back), but not as easy as a four door like the iMiev. Aside from that difference, and the price, that could be a negative, I'm assuming most other differences will be a win for the i3.

Have fun with it, I look forward to reading your impressions.
 
Some impressions after driving it.

Pros:
1. It has a LOT of torque. I went from 10 to 60 MPH very quickly (probably around 5 seconds) when getting on the highway.
2. The one pedal driving guarantees that all braking with no pedals is regen. The brake pedal has no regen attached to it. Brake lights come on with about 50% regen. It takes some getting used to after driving the i-MiEV (or anything else besides a Tesla, really).
3. The interior lighting is pretty cool. When unlocking the car with the remote and before a door is open, the whole interior lights up blue. When a door is opened, the lights turn to a natural/slightly warm white. There are lights in the exterior door handles (though my custom lights on the i-MiEV light up more of the ground), the interior door handles (slick), the tray below the center display (a rather handy feature), and under the lip of the dash to light up the floor.
4. Cruise control works quite well, only drifting 1 mph below the set speed when climbing a hill.

Cons:
1. The extended-cab pickup truck like doors weren't the best idea. I guess they call them carriage doors.
2. Although I imagine it can be disabled, the seat belt reminder is very obtrusive.
3. The mirrors are rather small.
4. BMW should have went all the way with the keyless fob and push button start. There aren't unlock buttons on the exterior handles, so you have to take the key out of your pocket, unlock or lock the car, and put it back in your pocket. This could be one of the features of a higher package, but the Mega doesn't have it. Also, you have to push Start/Stop twice from READY to actually turn the car off.
5. It may be a setting in the menu, but the hatch doesn't auto unlock when the driver's door is opened after parking.
6. Not all of the steering wheel controls light up at night.
7. The radio and climate controls are not very user friendly.
8. For having great low-beam headlights, the high-beams leave some room for improvement.
9. The reverse lights need to be about 3X brighter. (To be fair, the i-MiEV could use slightly brighter bulbs, too)

All in all, it's not bad, but it's not as good as the i-MiEV. The i3 is easier to drive than the LEAF, nearly as easy as the i-MiEV to judge where it is on the road, and just as easy to maneuver and park. There is a noticeable lag in the throttle that gave me trouble regulating power on a flat and straight road. I switched to Eco mode to help, then I remembered it has cruise control :cool: . It holds quite well on the highway, despite having tires almost the same width as the i-MiEV.

We're thinking of going for a drive tomorrow, and will update with more pros and cons.
 
alohart said:
As far as I can tell, the i3 is more similar to the i-MiEV in many ways than any other EV.

• How do the exterior and interior sizes compare, not in numbers but in usability, feel, etc.?
The i3 is just as easy to park as the i-MiEV. The rear parking sensors actually show you on-screen where objects are behind you with color-coded lines and a diagram of the car.

• How does back seat ingress, comfort, and space compare with the i-MieV?
The back seat is more difficult to get in and out of and isn't as comfortable as the i-MiEV. Also, there isn't as much room in the back seat.

• How does cargo space both with the rear seats up and down compare?
Can't answer this completely just yet, but space with the seats up is about the same, maybe a tad less than the i-MiEV.

• How does the driver's seating position compare?
About the same.

• How does regen compare with i-MiEV B mode?
Regen is stronger in the i3, especially below 30 mph. It will actually bring the car to a nearly complete stop without touching the brake pedal, and with brake lights.
 
PV1 said:
2. Although I imagine it can be disabled, the seat belt reminder is very obtrusive.
I've read complaints about this on an i3 forum. It might not be possible to disable this. I guess the workaround is to buckle up before turning on the car.

PV1 said:
4. BMW should have went all the way with the keyless fob and push button start. There aren't unlock buttons on the exterior handles, so you have to take the key out of your pocket, unlock or lock the car, and put it back in your pocket. This could be one of the features of a higher package, but the Mega doesn't have it.
Apparently, full keyless entry is a feature of an (expensive) optional package and/or higher trim level. Then just touching a door handle with the fob in one's pocket would unlock the door.

PV1 said:
Also, you have to push Start/Stop twice from READY to actually turn the car off.
I think an i3 will automatically turn off when one exits the driver's seat. This is also a complaint for some i3 owners who like to pick up their mail on their way out of their driveways. The car turns off immediately, so they have to restart when they return which results in another objectionable behavior: the climate control system doesn't remember your previous setting and always turns on in some default mode.

PV1 said:
5. It may be a setting in the menu, but the hatch doesn't auto unlock when the driver's door is opened after parking.
Another common complaint.

PV1 said:
7. The radio and climate controls are not very user friendly.
I wouldn't give the i-MiEV a high grade on this, either. Why is it that car manufacturers, in general, seem so lame at user interface design?

PV1 said:
8. For having great low-beam headlights, the high-beams leave some room for improvement.
Apparently, the low beams are LED's while the high beams are conventional filament lights.

PV1 said:
All in all, it's not bad, but it's not as good as the i-MiEV.
Do you mean in the absolute sense or relative to cost (i.e., the i3 would need to be twice as good as the i-MiEV since it costs about twice as much)?

Many of the i3 faults could be fixed with software upgrades. Hopefully, this will happen.

Cars.com lists 24 used i3's for sale across the U.S., but for high prices, especially if one could qualify for the $7,500 federal tax credit on a new vehicle. The Honolulu dealer has 16 new i3's sitting on his lot. Both of these numbers seem high compared with only 30 used i-MiEV's considering that the i-MiEV has been available for 2 years longer and several of these might have come off lease. The lowest price used i-MiEV is only $9,000!

I wonder whether the i3 is becoming a bust at its current high prices.
 
Here's some pics. It's rather cold out, so I didn't get pics of the i-MiEV yet.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8z5iyqohu3fouiy/AABZGM100B08gWDkX4cWiOSva?dl=0

The rear seats do fold to a flat floor, and cargo capacity looks to be about the same as the i-MiEV, though I want to say the back isn't as wide as the i-MiEV (I'll measure when I go back out to the cars). Rear legroom is about the same as the i-MiEV with where I set the driver's seat, though ingress/egress is more difficult (again, the carriage doors). Both front seats will fold forward a bit to help (similar to 2-door cars). Also, the rear windows do not roll down and there aren't rear speakers, but I would think (hope) that you get rear speakers with either a higher trim level or the Harman Kardon sound package. As it is, the radio sounds pretty good.

There is a front trunk ('frunk', as the Tesla folks call it), though it doesn't appear to be weathertight (soap streaks from them washing it, plus I found some leaves in it). Otherwise, it's a good place to keep the EVSE.

When charging with the car on, it'll show you current SoC on a 4-segment bar with current EV range with estimated full charge range, REx range, and time of charge completion (I wasn't out at the car at 3:30 AM, that picture was around midnight right before we went to bed, charging at 240 volt, 13 amps). It will also show total range, mi./kWh (2 spots, Avg. and Instantaneous or Lifetime and trip :?: Not sure), a trip odometer, and the odometer in the top left corner of the main display. These are cycled with a "BC" button on the turn signal lever. It said 3.4 mi./kWh when I cycled through. Also, it can't be shifted out of Park while plugged in.

alohart said:
PV1 said:
All in all, it's not bad, but it's not as good as the i-MiEV.

Do you mean in the absolute sense or relative to cost (i.e., the i3 would need to be twice as good as the i-MiEV since it costs about twice as much)?
i3 vs. i-MiEV, purely on the characteristics of each vehicle. Personally, I certainly wouldn't pay $45,000 for it. Honestly, the only things I really want that the i3 has is the longer EV range and some of the storage spaces (the basket under the center screen I find handy), both of which can be added to the i-MiEV, and still come out cheaper than the BMW.

alohart said:
Many of the i3 faults could be fixed with software upgrades. Hopefully, this will happen.
I agree. There is a software update option in the menu, so the functionality for owners to update their software exists.
 
Went for a short road trip today with it. All in all, about 110 miles with some opportunity charging.

I scoped out some charging stations farther up north, including the quick charger in Cranberry (that sucked that I couldn't use it. Where was my i-MiEV at? :lol: ) We plugged in on the way to Cranberry just to make sure Eaton units can charge the i3 (it has a 6.6 kW charger). While this unit won't charge a 2013-14 LEAF, the i3 had no trouble charging. We only plugged in here for a minute or two, before continuing to Cranberry, where we ate and charged for an hour. The car picked up 25% and 23 miles in that time. We brought the highway back and stopped at the Mall at Robinson to scope out those stations, charged for about 5-10 minutes, then continued on. About 20 miles from home, the REx kicked in (as planned). From inside the car, you can barely tell the difference, especially since it shuts off when stopped most of the time. Outside the car, it's rather noisy.

The i3 holds quite well on the highway. I found I prefer ECO PRO or ECO PRO +. Comfort mode is too sensitive for me. I lose about 12 miles on the highway compared to the main road.

The i3 can be put into neutral while driving, and it coasts quite well. Pressing the brake pedal in neutral will regen.

More pictures going up at the link above.
 
I was surprised by that, especially since it also backed the friction brakes off so it could regen more. Normally, I can hear the brakes rubbing as soon as I push on the brake pedal, but I couldn't hear it in neutral. Plus, the pedal was easier to push while in neutral.

The drivetrain is pretty good. Too bad the user interface isn't quite as innovative.
 
PV1 said:
I was surprised by that, especially since it also backed the friction brakes off so it could regen more. Normally, I can hear the brakes rubbing as soon as I push on the brake pedal, but I couldn't hear it in neutral. Plus, the pedal was easier to push while in neutral.
That's even more surprising. I have read that the i3 doesn't have regenerative braking in the sense that pressing the brake pedal increases regen over what just coasting provides. The brake pedal activates the friction brakes only, with full regen always available when the accelerator isn't being pressed just as when coasting. But there must be something else going on.

Regardless, if it's relatively easy to shift between D and N, this sounds like a good freewheeling implementation.
 
Spot on. When in drive, the brake pedal is purely friction. All regen is accessible by releasing the throttle. It's not as easy as the i-MiEV to put it in neutral, but it's not difficult. Pull the lever back one tick and hold it briefly and it's in neutral. Push it forward and it's back in Drive.

When in neutral, the brake pedal will first regen, then start applying friction. It plays with the brake pressure through ABS or something. It'll also hold the brakes on when facing uphill until you push the accelerator, quite handy without creep.
 
Thanks PV1 for all the details. You've saved me a lot of time (confirmed the i3 isn't the vehicle for me). I'm still kind of "wanting" to get something a little slicker, but I can bide my time and see what other offerings will come in the next few years, which looks like - if I can believe all the press - should be a fair number.
 
I have just requested an extended i3 test drive after I return to Honolulu and have my EV charging circuit installed in early November (it's taken about 15 months!). The Honolulu BMW salesman doesn't know whether an extended test drive is possible, but he's checking :) With 16 i3's sitting on their lot, I would think they would work with me.

But realistically, I can't see paying double the price of a 2014 i-MiEV for an i3. We think that our tire choices are limited and rather expensive. That's nothing compared with the very unusual i3 tires. Any parts would have the BMW markup. Collision and comprehensive insurance would likely be considerably more expensive. So there are many reasons why an i3 isn't a great deal, but a reasonably-priced used i3 might be attractive in a few years. I just want to determine whether an i3 would be a step up from the i-MiEV from my perspective, or whether its limitations and design flaws would be too much.
 
The extra range, and even the REx at 40+ MPG, are handy for making the longer trips without concern that cause me some caution in the i-MiEV. But there's no way I'd spend $45,000 on it. The i-MiEV is a much better car for practicality (ease of use, easy to keep clean, [somewhat] cheaper to fix if something breaks, etc.). The i-MiEV is much more user friendly than the i3, mainly because it doesn't seem like the software is all there. It constantly defaults to comfort mode, it shuts off when a door is opened, the radio menus are quite difficult to navigate, you must be nearly stopped to switch into Drive from Reverse (got caught in neutral quite a few times), and the doors don't seem to have the ability to auto-unlock when the driver's door is opened. Like we said above, though, software updates are possible, so a lot of these issues can be fixed over the air.

Then there's the hardware. Not all of the controls on the steering wheel light up at night (the two knobs for radio stations and cruise + and -). They use fiberglass for the interior door trim and dash. Besides keeping that looking good, what happens in a wreck? You'd get fiberglass dust in the car when it breaks. And, the steering is way too quick. If you would attempt to swerve to miss something, you could go much further in that direction than you want. Sweeping turns on the highway are about a 2° angle on the wheel. The i-MiEV's wheel would have about 7° angle.

If you would take the i-MiEV's body with the i3's drivetrain, you'd have a killer EV, but BMW's job on the interior functionality isn't anywhere nearly as innovative as the i-MiEV. No doubt that the i3 is slick, and you'll get much more attention from other people than even the i-MiEV.

Alohart, let us know if you get the test drive and what you think of it. They will want to hold onto your car as collateral, but the process of picking it up was rather fast. It took the guy longer to explain the car than to do the paperwork. I guess you can just continue this thread since the i3 I have is going back after work today.

DanPatGal, I get that feeling, too. I guess it's because every other EV out there either has a fancy dashboard and/or app, and the i-MiEV is plain Jane. Even with that, though, I feel the i-MiEV is better and am glad with my choice.
 
Back
Top