Will BMW help kick start mass EV take up?

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/i3/first-drives/bmw-i3-prototype-first-drive-review

The new i3 looks intriguing, will be interesting to see if other manufacturers can slipstream its brand cachet and popularity to get the wider market started on EVs.

I think the more EV's the better, but the price of the i3 prevents it from leading the charge.

I think the i3 is very similar in concept and packaging to our i-MiEV.
When reading the review, a number of points made me think: yes, this is what the i-MiEV would be if Mitsubishi could price it at an extra $10-15k. I am glad they did not, because I would not be driving one now.
The i3 certainly seems like a very logical EV to move up to for people who are happy with their i-MiEV but would like the extra technology and sophistication of the BMW, and can afford it.
It certainly is not a car that the average BMW driver will aspire to, so I don't think it will work to 'kick start the EV take up' in the way that you imply it might.

Being far less radical than our i-MiEV (the i3 is no lightly tweaked kei car), it would be more broadly appealing. But I agree with other members so far - unless priced to match the LEAF, it's unlikely to move the needle on EV uptake. A few green Bimmer fans won't make a dent on the sales charts, much less drive charging infrastructure build-out (and don't forget, i3 is CCS, not CHAdeMO - though dual mode seems to be the way L3 charging stations are going).

Hmm. I wonder how this will differ in different markets. Being an ex-pat Brit in Australia I agree that here, possibly as in the US the i3 may be limited in its market appeal, however I can see it succeeding in Euro markets where cities like London have a congestion charge as well as significant government incentives to make EV ownership more appealing. Also the UK is a very brand driven market with many people considering the badge before the car. Perhaps my initial thinking was too UK centric. Time will tell.

WyVern said:

Also the UK is a very brand driven market with many people considering the badge before the car. Perhaps my initial thinking was too UK centric. Time will tell.

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I agree, I think BMW has a real problem with this car outside of Germany. BMW is sold as a luxury brand here in North America, they can't sell it too low and have every granola crunching hippy driving around in one otherwise the bluebloods won't have the snob appeal of driving a BMW anymore. It has to remain expensive and elusive, they want it to be the 'Ultimate Electric Driving Machine'. Yet, this car is nothing like a Tesla Model S - a full size luxury ride with long range on its batteries alone without an augmented motorcycle engine (probably from Bombardier). People that can afford a BMW can also afford the gas, unless they are trying to be ubergreen in their ubermobile - it's a small niche market.

Checking similar reviews on UK sites Pistonheads.com, AutoExpress.co.uk etc and it seems BMW are aiming for the urban-chic set. Apparently the dashboard and glasshouse design is particularly striking and may just set enough trendy tongues wagging that the range-extender version may see significant uptake for those upgrading from a (not-so) Mini.

HParkEV said:

...The i3 certainly seems like a very logical EV to move up to for people who are happy with their i-MiEV but would like the extra technology and sophistication of the BMW, and can afford it.

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It can respond also to BMW owner who (now) are use to go to the after sale every month for a new tech issue, and who are disapointed with the reliability of their i-MieV !

I've changed my BMW every 2 years in the last decade, we bought the C-Zero (i-MieV) on the side as an experience... and discovered that a new car car run without any issue for more than a month, even if it's cheap and not chic. :mrgreen:

We are already on the i-bmw customer listing, and had receive nice communications by mail in June.
We'll go to see it, but I'm not in a hurry to get one... untill at least 1 or 2 years to be sure we can rely on it.

http://automobile.challenges.fr/nouveautes/20130710.LQA4788/la-bmw-i3-revele-ses-derniers-secrets.html

To me the good points are :

- you can charge it on any residential electric plug source (with the Renault Zoe you can't)
- you are the owner of the battery (with the Renault Zoe you're not)
- the i3 will be fast : 0 to 60mph in 7,2 sec. / max speed : 100 mph
- a strong regenerative braking capacity as I love it on our C-Zero, wich permit a smooth ride in town.
- a nice interior with a pano roof and a real stereo system.

The bad one are :

- range capacity under 100 Miles in real conditions (don't want any ICE inside even as an electric generator)
- no CHAdeMO onboard
- stupid rear door system (it already sucks on the Mini Clubman)
- carbon fiber frame mean no way to repair the car in case of accident

I'll go to test drive it as soon as my BMW dealer will get one.

Styling-wise, I'll take the i over this one. Value for the money, perhaps, but it uses the yet-to-be-deployed SAE DCQC "Frankencharger" standard.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/news/1307_2014_bmw_i3_specs_pricing_and_release_announced/



http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1307_2014_bmw_i3_first_drive/



http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1085824_2014-bmw-i3-electric-car-full-details-and-images-released



http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1085463_2014-bmw-i3-electric-car-specifications-and-details-released

With so many CHAdeMO e.g. in France installed and with a Tsunami of Tesla Superchargers rolling over North America at least, I dont see a chance Frankenplugs could make it.

I guess Tesla and CHAdeMO both will. Maybe there will be kits to make every car compliant to either or both of CHAdeMO and Tesla.

There is no car to plug a Frankenplug into. For the i3 we have to wait till november but there are Teslas and CHAdeMOs.

Cheers
Peter and Karin

I'm going to take back a few things I said earlier about the BMW i3. It may be much more important than I first thought, even at its high-ish price (thousands more than a Volt or Focus Electric, which I'd assumed would render it irrelevant), because of a wrinkle in California regulations that I just learned about.

It turns out that the i3's designers have fashioned a smart bomb for the California EV market. The i3 is going to be, at least for now, the only EV available with both a gas-fired "range extender" option AND guaranteed access to California's coveted HOV "diamond" lanes. How they managed this is an interesting journey through the maze of government incentives and their consequences, intended or otherwise. David Herron's Long Tailpipe blog spells out what happened in this post from last December:

http://www.longtailpipe.com/2012/12/the-carb-zev-loophole-big-enough-to.html

The bottom line is that BMW is the first manufacturer to build the sort of PHEV that most EV enthusiasts had in mind before Chevy's Volt showed up, i.e., a straight-up EV that's added a small fuel-burning auxiliary power unit (APU) to "tack on" additional miles until there's an opportunity to charge. This is no game of regulatory dodgeball - the i3 will actually come to market only in EV form, with the APU a pricey option that will be available in the near future (I haven't seen any word on whether this could be added to an existing i3 after the fact or if it's factory only). Perhaps more important, BMW's small 34 hp two-cylinder APU (adapted from a motorcycle engine as I understand it) has a small fuel tank that limits the APU's effective range to less than 100 miles (plenty to get to the gas station, but not very appealing for cross-country travel). The CARB was sufficiently impressed by this approach, one that would result in a car operating mostly as a "pure" EV, that they granted BMW's request to receive unlimited HOV permits for i3s, including those equipped with the optional APU.

While the CARB did NOT grant BMW a special "waiver" as some have implied, they did want to make sure that HOV "white stickers" continued to be limited to BEVs. So they defined a new class of vehicle called a BEVx or "battery electric vehicle with extender." According to David Herron's blog post, a vehicle only qualifies for this class if all of these tests are met:

1. the APU range is equal to or less than the all-electric range

2. engine operation cannot occur until the battery charge has been depleted to the charge-sustaining lower limit

3. the battery provides a minimum 80 miles (EPA estimated) electric range

4. the APU is super ultra low emission vehicle (SULEV) and zero evaporative emissions compliant, while the battery system meets TZEV warranty requirements

CARB's decision is understandable, but I also understand why everybody but BMW is a bit miffed. It's not going to be easy to add a range extender to EVs like the LEAF, Spark EV, etc., and it would be even harder to modify current PHEVs up to and including the Volt to pass tests #1 and #3. BMW has secured a loophole that may give them an exclusive status for a couple of years, offering the only EV with both access to HOV lanes and freedom from range anxiety. In California, that might be the magic formula for EV dominance.

It will be interesting to see if the little 650cc 'range extender' engine/generator can be hacked so as to make the car even more versatile . . . . like having it continue to run while you're away from the car having dinner or something . . . . or a way to make it run from the very beginning of your trip. Depending on conditions, this could probably triple or quadruple the total range, making it an EV you could take most anywhere - You could easily go 300 miles without recharging, recharge at your destination and make the 300 mile trip back home, all in one day and probably burning only a couple of gallons of gas

Don

Don said:

You could easily go 300 miles without recharging, recharge at your destination and make the 300 mile trip back home, all in one day and probably burning only a couple of gallons of gas

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I see two problems with this. Obviously, it violates the very constraints that give the i3 its special status as "pretty much an EV", in particular rule #2. I guess that's why you said "hacking." Enough of that, though, and the game's likely to be up for everyone - so don't spoil it!

The second problem is the math. The i3 has <100 miles range, and its range extender adds on 100 miles before needing to be refueled. That doesn't translate into 300 miles total - unless you're assuming refueling stops that you didn't mention.

Range Extender Light:

Dont buy the REX, just get the 9 liters tank and use it to feed a diesel heater. Gets you the some 100% range extension in winter that a REX would get you in the first place. :lol:

We wondered about a peculiar car that you cannot easily charge in Germany. California makes sense, but what do they need a Frankenplug for? Guess you can replace it with a Tesla plug. :mrgreen:

Cheers
Peter and Karin

Vike said:

...I haven't seen any word on whether this could be added to an existing i3 after the fact or if it's factory only). Perhaps more important, BMW's small 34 hp two-cylinder APU (adapted from a motorcycle engine as I understand it.

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For drivers wanting longer-distance capabilities, a range-extended 600cc gasoline engine can be added at the factory, which gives the i3 a combined gasoline and electric range up to 211 miles. Including the range-extender bumps up the pre-incentive price of the i3 from $41,350 to $45,200. It also adds another 260 pounds to the i3’s curb weight, increasing its drag coefficient and reducing its 0-62 m.p.h. time to 7.9 seconds.

http://www.plugincars.com/production-bmw-i3-unveiled-simultaneously-across-world-127843.html

Interesting how the advertisement shows the i3 in California (Los Angeles?), but it has European style license plates. WTF?

Vike said:

Don said:

You could easily go 300 miles without recharging, recharge at your destination and make the 300 mile trip back home, all in one day and probably burning only a couple of gallons of gas

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I see two problems with this. Obviously, it violates the very constraints that give the i3 its special status as "pretty much an EV", in particular rule #2.

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I can see where 'Rule 2' would be important for those few who are likely to buy it so they can use the HOV lanes with only a single occupant . . . . but for the rest of us who don't live within 250 miles of ANY HOV lane, a more practical usage of the range extender would certainly make the car much more attractive - Something between a pure EV (which has limited range) and a Chevy Volt which tries to be an EV but can't because the computer won't let you use half of it's battery

The iMiEV does about 90% of what we need a car to do . . . . but if we do need to drive to New Orleans (90 miles) or even Mobile (50 miles) we have to take an ICE - Even if we could stretch it down the freeway to Mobile, we'd have to find some place to sit and charge for 6 or 7 hours to make it back home. If the i3 could make a trip and recharge itself while it was sitting unused over dinner, it could probably handle most of the other 10% that the iMiEV can't do. Why spend $45K on a car which is hampered by 'rules' which do nothing for me except to make it a 'legal' HOV car . . . . especially since I can't find a HOV lane anywhere near where I live??

Hopefully, they'll offer a 'rules' version . . . . and a 'practical' version . . . . with a little larger gas tank

Don

MLucas said:

For drivers wanting longer-distance capabilities, a range-extended 600cc gasoline engine can be added at the factory, which gives the i3 a combined gasoline and electric range up to 211 miles. Including the range-extender bumps up the pre-incentive price of the i3 from $41,350 to $45,200. It also adds another 260 pounds to the i3’s curb weight, increasing its drag coefficient and reducing its 0-62 m.p.h. time to 7.9 seconds.

http://www.plugincars.com/production-bmw-i3-unveiled-simultaneously-across-world-127843.html

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Thanks for that, I might have glossed over it. Though it still doesn't explicitly say that it is IMPOSSIBLE to add the RE after purchase, it certainly implies that BMW won't be offering it, strongly suggesting that it isn't feasible. This is significant because the RE version won't be available for months after the launch of the EV only version.

As I'm learning more about the i3 after the official announcement, it's becoming clearer why adding the RE would be unworkable. The engine is installed at the rear of the vehicle, and as noted in your excerpt, actually raises the drag coefficient, suggesting different underbody panels or whatever at the rear to accommodate the engine. Re-tuning for that extra 260 pounds and different weight distribution probably affects a lot of pieces as well. I guess Californians wanting that range-anxiety-free experience will just have to wait.

peterdambier said:

We wondered about a peculiar car that you cannot easily charge in Germany. California makes sense, but what do they need a Frankenplug for? Guess you can replace it with a Tesla plug. :mrgreen:

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Well, to be clear, the euro-Frankenplug, which allows for Level 2 charging from any Mennekes charger, is different from the American one, which accepts Level 2 charging from J1772 EVSEs. As to how useful the SAE Combo standard will be even here, I guess the idea is that Level 3 chargers, aside from those at Nissan dealers ;-), will be dual-standard, with CHAdeMO and Frankenplug cables available (pick your monster), but time will tell. I think GM's lobbying efforts to wipe CHAdeMO off the map are pretty much done and been judged a complete failure.

I'm not sure why people keep mentioning Tesla plugs. Though they've made vague noises about licensing their charger design "one of these days", I'm not aware of any serious efforts in that direction to date. For everyone else, Level 3 means CHAdeMO or Frankenplug (Euro and U.S. versions).

This car Might !!!!!, On our NZ TV ONE NEWS.

Cool parking, and they are getting 100 Km per hour, but need to use better batteries to get as good as the iMiEV range though. From the look of the batteries shown, they look like standard Hilux size batteries.

Love the parking and ability to U turn on the spot, really handy for those times when you have gone the wrong way into a one way road...

Revolutionary electric car unveiled in Dunedin (Source: ONE News)
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/revolutionary-electric-car-unveiled-in-dunedin-video-5523915

My boss sent me the alert about it being on TV.

iMiEVNZ7